ToneDexter vs Baggs VoicePrint ?

[SongwriterFan]

Does anybody have a good comparison of the ToneDexter vs the Baggs VoicePrint?

It would seem that the VoicePrint has a lot of extra capability in the form of EQ available, that one would have to use a separate EQ pedal if using the ToneDexter.

And the VoicePrint seems easier (if you own an iPhone) for recording and making the IR image.

But how good are the IR results in the VoicePrint vs the ToneDexter? IF the ToneDexter if FAR superior in that regard, then it would seem to be the better choice. Otherwise, the VoicePrint might seem to be the more logical choice.

[Steely Glen]

A quick YouTube search doesn't unearth any direct A/B comparisons, but (like you) I'm eager to see a good one. These two units seem to be at the top of that segment of the acoustic amplification market, so a shootout is in order.

[SongwriterFan]

Another interesting development . . .it now appears you can control some aspects (EQ, as an example) on the VoicePrint from your Apple Watch, too. Not sure how practical that is, given the size of the watch, though.

[Steely Glen]

If it works well from the watch, it might be cool. I could imagine being on my wireless unit and walking out to FOH to hear my sound through the PA and using the AppleWatch app to dial in things remotely to the room. That would be pretty nifty!

[martingitdave]

Tonedexter will produce a better IR wavemap using any mic of your choosing and has a pro grade design and preamp. It's a pro product. The VP is a consumer grade product designed for ease of use with an iPhone. It's a matter of how much control you want over the wavemap.

[jonfields45]

It feels to me like a David vs. Goliath kind of match.

Not having touched a VP I am impressed with everything about TD; from the breadcrumbs of info on a well thought out algorithm to the first class physical design.

I am rooting for ToneDexter as Baggs can certainly bury them in expensive advertising and marketing.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

It feels to me like a David vs. Goliath kind of match.



Not having touched a VP I am impressed with everything about TD; from the breadcrumbs of info on a well thought out algorithm to the first class physical design.



I am rooting for ToneDexter as Baggs can certainly bury them in expensive advertising and marketing.

Yes, that's a more objective take. Are you concerned that the iPhone mic will not produce the same fidelity? Or since it's a known reference, the software will work around it?

[jklotz]

And a lot of us folks don't have iphones, so there's that.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Or since it's a known reference, the software will work around it?

I suspect that's what they're doing . . . sorta like using an IR on the iPhone mic to help get the IR of the guitar.

I'm also intrigued that the VoicePrint seems to be promising better results with magnetic pickups and pickups like the Taylor ES (version 1). Whether that's just a difference in "hope" vs an actual difference in how well it works on the two systems is something I think would be interesting for somebody to test.

I've already got a ToneDexter, and if you just go by "the specs" it would seem to be a step down to go to the VoicePrint. But the question is, just how much of a step down is it, and do all the added things (mainly the EQ) make it worth the tradeoff.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I suspect that's what they're doing . . . sorta like using an IR on the iPhone mic to help get the IR of the guitar.

I'm also intrigued that the VoicePrint seems to be promising better results with magnetic pickups and pickups like the Taylor ES (version 1). Whether that's just a difference in "hope" vs an actual difference in how well it works on the two systems is something I think would be interesting for somebody to test.

I've already got a ToneDexter, and if you just go by "the specs" it would seem to be a step down to go to the VoicePrint. But the question is, just how much of a step down is it, and do all the added things (mainly the EQ) make it worth the tradeoff.

I agree, the fact that the VP seems to work well with magnetic systems as well as dual source systems with a mic (Anthem SL, Lyric etc), is intriguing. I don't think either is a step up or down, they are just different devices. The TD seems to be for those people who want the most natural IR possible. It's a fantastic device and blows me away whenever I plug in and try it.

The VP on the other hand seems to be going after the working musician crowd. That's not a knock on the TD at all, I just think the TD takes more patience, care and an overall desire to achieve the most natural tone. The VP offers all of the features that a gigging musician would need so it's a bit more of a complete unit. I do also find that the IR just seems to blend better with the pickup. It doesn't create as natural a tone as the TD but for most players, it's probably easier to make an IR with the VP and take it to a show that night and make it work.

I hope to get a VP soon so I will compare the two.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Yes, that's a more objective take. Are you concerned that the iPhone mic will not produce the same fidelity? Or since it's a known reference, the software will work around it?

The iPhone mic is an easy attack on VP. Maybe they've EQ'd it out of the equation (another IR) or maybe as many iPhone videos of my duo seem to indicate, it's not so bad. Definitely not a cork sniffer's solution :~). But even I think a real mic is a good choice and given you only need it briefly; not something you have to own.

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I'm also intrigued that the VoicePrint seems to be promising better results with magnetic pickups and pickups like the Taylor ES (version 1).

The math says magnetic pickups not placed at the bridge can't be improved with an IR unless at the very minimum you restrict yourself to one position such as the open position. I've tried my own IRs with magnetic pickups and found them better than useless but not the startling improvement like you get with a UST.

BUT, a well financed marketing campaign that claims the impossible is just the sort of Goliath move you would expect.

I seem to recall Wonder Bread used to build strong bodies in 8 ways. Sliced bread was a useful invention (along with the toaster). I think Colbert called it Truthiness.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

BUT, a well financed marketing campaign that claims the impossible is just the sort of Goliath move you would expect.

I don't know, Lr Baggs posted a demo of the VP with the Lyric and the results were fantastic. Most people say IR's and mic based pickups are not a good combination either but it worked well with the VP. I have no reason to believe that they are lying about it working well with a magnetic pickup. I truly feel that this pedal is not the same as the Tonedexter. Lloyd even discussed the fact that they worked very hard to get rid of the hollow/disconnected feel that you get with most IR's. I don't think a magnetic pickup would ever be my first choice for an IR so I get where you are coming from there, but until I try the VP, I will trust what Lloyd says.

Maybe Aaron or someone who has a VP and magnetic pickup, would be willing to do a quick demo?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I don't know, Lr Baggs posted a demo of the VP with the Lyric and the results were fantastic. Most people say IR's and mic based pickups are not a good combination either but it worked well with the VP. I have no reason to believe that they are lying about it working well with a magnetic pickup. I truly feel that this pedal is not the same as the Tonedexter. Lloyd even discussed the fact that they worked very hard to get rid of the hollow/disconnected feel that you get with most IR's. I don't think a magnetic pickup would ever be my first choice for an IR so I get where you are coming from there, but until I try the VP, I will trust what Lloyd says.

Maybe Aaron or someone who has a VP and magnetic pickup, would be willing to do a quick demo?

The math for IR calculation is all good with a mic.

If your IR sounds bad (hollow) then you need to record again with the mic in a different position.

All these claims are just that. I think James May wanted to be very careful and probably tilted his instructions to ones that would stand up well in a recording studio. I think Baggs saw this as a marketing opportunity to say their product is less fussy. But it is all simple math (at least to an electrical engineer) and less fussy is just not possible.

Any post processing EQ built into the product is more likely to cause trouble than benefit as it is impossible to system test this stuff with every possible mic, in every possible position, with every possible guitar, with every possible pickup, and with every possible mistake made by the end user.

I am still supporting my IR generator (just this morning I generated IRs for someone who emailed me). I know how basic my approach is and I find over and over that it does not out fox itself with solutions to problems that only apply occasionally.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

If your IR sounds bad (hollow) then you need to record again with the mic in a different position.

ToneDexter makes this abundantly clear. But Baggs doesn't seem to emphasize it at all (unless I'm missing where they do?).

Is it just a difference in marketing (probably?), or is there something that Baggs as figured out that AudioSprockets has not?

I am quite curious as to how "finicky" doing an IR with VoicePrint is as to where you put the iPhone that you're recording with.

[Steve36]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I agree, the fact that the VP seems to work well with magnetic systems as well as dual source systems with a mic (Anthem SL, Lyric etc), is intriguing. I don't think either is a step up or down, they are just different devices. The TD seems to be for those people who want the most natural IR possible. It's a fantastic device and blows me away whenever I plug in and try it.

The VP on the other hand seems to be going after the working musician crowd. That's not a knock on the TD at all, I just think the TD takes more patience, care and an overall desire to achieve the most natural tone. The VP offers all of the features that a gigging musician would need so it's a bit more of a complete unit. I do also find that the IR just seems to blend better with the pickup. It doesn't create as natural a tone as the TD but for most players, it's probably easier to make an IR with the VP and take it to a show that night and make it work.

I hope to get a VP soon so I will compare the two.

I always have a mic at a gig. I don't own an iphone.

Steve