Question for Luthiers: Guitar Luthier Shows

iim7V7IM7 · #1 08-30-2013, 11:33 AM

Hi,

On the heels of Healdsburg show, I wanted to ask luthiers their perspective on these types of shows (e.g. Healdsburg, Montreal, Woodstock etc.). I can imagine that it is your largest sales & marketing expense of the year (particularly if you come from a great distance).

Perhaps a naive question, but is it "worth it"?

Do you sell the instruments that you bring?

Do you get commissions at the show or later by clients who tried your instruments there?

Are they not about "sales" but about the "rub-off marketing" of the show to bolster potential client's awareness of you?

Or is it not about sales, but about meeting up with colleagues and catching up/sharing ideas?

Obviously, for a potential buyer it is a chance to meet a luthier and to some degree play them (albeit sometimes a difficult environment to evaluate). I am just curious because with the advent of the internet with your websites and forums like this one as avenues to show your work, how do you view forums like AGF vs. the historic luthier shows? How much of your commissions come from shows, forums or magazine ads?

Curious,

Bob

Howard Klepper · #2 08-30-2013, 12:50 PM

These are all good questions, Bob.

While I can't speak for anyone other than myself, the detailed answers are subjects I reserve for discussion with my colleagues.

Larry Pattis · #3 08-30-2013, 01:16 PM

Howard's circumspect answer aside, I would surmise that any builder that goes to any of these shows a second-time must think something about being there is/was "worth it." I certainly can't and won't speak for any builder, other than in making a basic observation.

"Why" is a different issue.

murrmac123 · #4 08-30-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

These are all good questions, Bob.

While I can't speak for anyone other than myself, the detailed answers are subjects I reserve for discussion with my colleagues.

I think you mean "peers" rather than "colleagues", Howard ...

iim7V7IM7 · #5 08-30-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

These are all good questions, Bob.

While I can't speak for anyone other than myself, the detailed answers are subjects I reserve for discussion with my colleagues.

I didn't realize that I was asking something so proprietary (sorry). I have just seen a shift away from trade shows in other industries and wondered if a similar trend applied to craft who's perceived value is so based on human senses. Luthiery might be different.

Thanks for responding

iim7V7IM7 · #6 08-30-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Howard's circumspect answer aside, I would surmise that any builder that goes to any of these shows a second-time must think something about being there is/was "worth it." I certainly can't and won't speak for any builder, other than in making a basic observation.

"Why" is a different issue.

But, I try never to confuse correlation with causality...

Howard Klepper · #7 08-30-2013, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrmac123

I think you mean "peers" rather than "colleagues", Howard ...

I said what I meant, Murray.

Larry Pattis · #8 08-30-2013, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

I said what I meant, Murray.

God I love this place...

...sometimes!

SJ VanSandt · #9 08-30-2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

I said what I meant, Murray.

I think that could be construed as an answer to the original questions, too. I mean using the term "colleagues."

iim7V7IM7 · #10 08-30-2013, 06:03 PM

Perhaps other luthiers would consider chiming in vs. the thread getting side tracked onto a a debate over "colleague" vs. "peer"? Howard has responded clearly (as always, professor). Let's move on shall we?

Jimmy Caldwell · #11 08-30-2013, 08:28 PM

I've exhibited at each of the last five Healdsburg's for in part, all of the reasons listed in the original post. I've sold and/or gotten commissions at each one I've done and thoroughly enjoyed the experience every time. The cost of exhibiting is substantial, particularly for those of us that have to travel a long distance to attend, but for me it comes at a time when I'm ready for a break From the Texas heat and Northern California is pretty nice in August.

It also gives me a chance to see fellow luthiers that I only get to see every couple of years and that's always fun. From a pure financial point of view, it's probably a wash in the long run, but if you're doing this for the financial rewards you're probably in the wrong business. I can't speak to the other shows, but LMI and Chris, Natalie, and crew do a wonderful job and that makes it a lot easier for those of us exhibiting.

I even got to meet Howard at this year's show and I really enjoyed visiting with him. To all that haven't had the chance to attend an HGF yet, if you get the chance, go for it, you won't be sorry.

Bruce Sexauer · #12 08-30-2013, 08:38 PM

There are things I like and things I don't like about the big shows like HGF. I love being there, which is good because these days you almost have to if you want to be taken seriously. Feels like blackmail. I worked hard for 2 1/2 months leading up, harder yet for the week of the event, and not at all for the weeks since. It burns me out.

Chas Freeborn · #13 08-30-2013, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

These are all good questions, Bob.

While I can't speak for anyone other than myself, the detailed answers are subjects I reserve for discussion with my colleagues.

I'm with Howard on this one.

On a parallel note, my wife and I go to the big car show in our town,out of curiosity, every few years. I would not expect anything more than a boiler plate response to this questions from the representatives there... and I happen to drive a vintage 911, for what ever that's worth...
-C

mikealpine · #14 08-30-2013, 09:33 PM

As an observer, it would seem that builders that exhibit will have a greater level of success, not just because of the additional exposure, but because guitar playing is such a tactile experience. I'm sure it is beneficial for most, even if just to lay the foundation for future commissions and to generate "buzz" about their instruments and building style.

Brock Poling · #15 08-30-2013, 10:14 PM

There's no big secret about the shows. It's a huge expense... not just in the cost of exhibiting (which is fairly reasonable by trade show standards), but the cost of building the guitars, shipping the guitars, flying in, staying in a hotel, ... you get the point. It's tough to make this work financially if you look at shows as a place to sell vs. a marketing "expense." Really the only way to justify the shows (if you're not in their back yard) is to look at it as a marketing investment in your brand.

Not to mention the fact that you really need to build something that will LITERALLY stop traffic. Even over the top beautiful woods aren't enough anymore. They are so common at these shows they barely get noticed. To get a lot of people to stop by your table you need to give them something they rarely (if ever) see. That's why so many builders have at least one guitar (if not a table full of them) that are tricked out to the 9's. There's nothing wrong with that, but it seems like with every show the bar gets higher and higher and higher with the lengths builders will go to. Most of it is cosmetics, and don't get me wrong, I love to see these projects, but it's pretty obvious of what their intent is.

That said... I have sold everything I have ever taken to HGF. It's a great show for luthiers to sell guitars and players to buy custom guitars without the wait or the chance they won't like the finished product.

Montreal is probably my favorite show, but that has more to do with my personal love of the city than that particular show. It's probably my favorite place in North America and I am just happy to be there... but from a business perspective it's very hard (impossible) to sell AT the show because of the tax implications U.S. builders selling in Canada. However, I've taken a few commissions after the show.

One thing I love about the shows... and it always fascinates me to see this happen is seeing the chemistry between players and instruments. I can hear one of my guitars in the hands of a player and think this instrument is "ok" but sooner or later someone will pick it up and it will just sing and I will think ... "WOW!! this might be the best guitar I've ever built."

It isn't that the second player is that much better than the first, it's just a a chemistry between the instrument and player (akin to magnetism) it's like they were meant for one another. That's why all the reviews on this site make me smile... the biggest variable that's left out of all these reviews is the person playing the guitar. What's awesome in the hands of one person is average in the hands of another, and vice versa.

These shows allow those connections to be made between players and instruments.

So back to your original question... I've fallen off the show circuit in the last few years, but that has more to do with personal issues rather than thinking the shows weren't a good investment.

I miss them and plan on getting back on them in 2014 or so.