Rock wool - rigid type

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

The Rockwool products are stiffer than the typical pink fiberglass fluff, but still are a bit floppy, and will come apart if handled roughly. I don't think I'd use them without a frame, but they work fine in a open frame with a fabric covering front and back.

OC703 is much more rigid, Fran Guidry and others have simply wrapped them in fabric without any frame at all. 703 would still bend or crease and even break off pieces if handled roughly, but if you're a bit careful no frame necessary. I did put my panels with OC703 in a lightweight frame anyway.

Except with no frame even 703 would be marginally usable IMO. A frame at least gives you something to hang it with, and unless you have a stand that supports it without screws , they would be of little use as portable Gobo's me thinks ....

[keith.rogers]

The Rockboard material is, I believe, similar to the OC boards. It's worth the trouble if you really need the extra density, and it also can eliminate the need for framing, but availability is a continuing problem, and there's a point where the shipping costs overwhelm its advantages.

I used Safe'n'Sound and double thickness in the corner bass traps. You would need to frame those I think even with the rigid material, but I've not used it. As they generally occupy unused space, I didn't find the thickness a problem, and used 1x8s and because it felt right (and I remember a double-wall video showing that an air gap really helped), put the 3" batts in with an air gap between them. I believe if you get 2" rigid panels and stack them, they will not fit 4" framing (3.5" finished dimension), but, as mentioned, you probably can get away without framing in many uses, though you still want to mount them away from the wall for best performance. I think the denser, 2" panels should be fine for broadband trapping, especially if it's acoustic guitar recording, so long as you have bass traps in the corners, and probably some clouds overhead.

If you get the Safe'n'Sound material, or similar that is now available from OC and others, I found it cuts easily and cleanly with what we use as a bread knife, though it has very fine serration, and not the rougher serration of most knives. It is much different than fiberglass batts in that regard.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Except with no frame even 703 would be marginally usable IMO. A frame at least gives you something to hang it with, and unless you have a stand that supports it without screws , they would be of little use as portable Gobo's me thinks ....

In one of Fran's videos, doesn't he just prop a couple up against a table behind the microphones? Maybe I'm misremembering. I do recall folks here saying you could just wrap OC703 with fabric. I do agree that having a frame makes them more useful, as well as sturdier.

I have to find out where to buy the cloth and how to measure what I need to order it

I bought acoustic fabric from Acoustimac.com (ATS sells it too). At $10.99/yard for a 64" width, it's a pretty good deal. You can get burlap or muslin cheaper, but it won't look nearly as nice. Plain cotton/poly broadcloth is cheaper per yard, but often only 45" wide so you'd need to buy more to cover. (These are going by prices at Joann fabric online.)

[Feste]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm going to build frames for the stuff and cover with cloth (I have to find out where to buy the cloth and how to measure what I need to order it)

Barry,
I bought my fabric from ATS because their shipping was reasonable based on my location. As Chipolte pointed out, some people just go to a fabric store and buy muslin. I wanted mine to be fire-resistant so I went with the Guilford of Maine Sona Acoustical Fabric and I am glad I did. Here are some pics of the frames I made for the wall panels and cloud panels. I used particle board for the frames because it was so cheap. If I ever do this again I will use pine for the corner traps instead:

Here are my corner bass traps with the Rockwool Safe & Sound:

Cutting the S&S wasn't that bad:

I used my cordless 18 ga stapler to put the fabric on:

Here are few shots of the final products in place:

[TBman]

I had no luck finding the rock board today at Lowes. I will check Home Depot soon, if they don't have it I'll have to order some online if I can or buy pre-fab ones

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by TBman

I had no luck finding the rock board today at Lowes. I will check Home Depot soon, if they don't have it I'll have to order some online if I can or buy pre-fab ones

Are you looking for 24" wide batts specifically? They generally don't carry that in stock. If the 16" batts are okay, they have lots at two Lowes I checked in northern NJ. Edit: that's for the Safe N Sound, which is all they carry. You won't find Rockwool 60 or 80 at the home improvement centers; you'll have to find a supplier who will sell to the public.

[Feste]

Chipotle is right, you can’t get the 24x 48” S&S at Lowe’s. The smaller batts work best for corner traps anyway. What are you trying to address? If it is the lower spectrum or mote broadband?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Feste

Chipotle is right, you can’t get the 24x 48” S&S at Lowe’s. The smaller batts work best for corner traps anyway. What are you trying to address? If it is the lower spectrum or mote broadband?

I'm trying to gather the materials to make 3 portable gobos 4'x2'x4".

[Feste]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm trying to gather the materials to make 3 portable gobos 4'x2'x4".

If you are trying to separate sound or instruments you might consider adding a layer of Homasoate fiberboard. It’s light, rigid and available at most big box building supply stores. That combined with Rockwool, Owens Corning or similar material should do the trick. It kind of depends on how thick you want them to be. You could also use fabric on one side and maybe a reflective surface on the other. If you put castors the bottom it would be very movable as well.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm trying to gather the materials to make 3 portable gobos 4'x2'x4".

I was able to order 4'x 2' by 4" inch Roxul Safe and Sound (not rockboard but they might have access to that also ) one bag at my local,,,, Do It Best, hardware store. There was no shipping but I had to wait for the next big delivery to them, from their distribution center. I cant remember how any pieces it was but more than 3 maybe 8 ?

[jim1960]

FYI - Roxul 60 can be bought in 4 inch thickness so a single sheet could be used for a bass trap.

[johnnydobbers]

wish someone would do a new write up about these diy panels and traps. i can never find what the youtube videos use, and the different names of the material is confusing....i attempted last week to start buying supplies but got frustrated...safensound roxul rockwool etc

[alohachris]

Aloha Barry,

A few months back I provided you with a list of NYC-area suppliers for DIY materials for broadband absorbers. Remember?

Why not take that short trip to J & S Supply in Long Island City, NY, just across the bridge, & pick up a box of 6 or 12 2"x2'x4' OC 703 rigid fiberglass panels. Make some broadband absorbers & start getting that sound & control you've been chasing for years now, Bar. That's what pro studio's use, NOT ROCK WOOL! IT's right there waiting for you. Why procrastinate, Barry?

It seems like many at AGF have adopted rock wool as their 'go-to'room treatment material. OC 703 is better. Again, No professional studio I know of uses rock wool as treatment material.

Unlike using rockwool, if you guys use OC 703, you won't need frames! They are self supporting at 4" thick (two glued together). Frames provide more hard surfaces & are actually counter-productive to what you're trying to do with Room Treatment material sonically. Hard surfaces = more reflections to be controlled. You can even vary the panels' spacing for more or less room in your mix.

Fran Guidy has provided several very useful video's about how to easily make broadband absorbers using OC 703. It's simple, relatively cheap & easy to do, using a few common-sense precautions: do it outside if can, wear your facemasks, wear gloves & cover your arms. Cover the panels with a material of your choice - Walmart has cheap material plus everything you'll need to make the panels yourself, except the OC 703. My favorite spray glue for the material is Loctite 300 & hot-melt glue for the joints & corners.

As a reminder, Here are a couple of Fran's great video's RE: DIY Room Treatment:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

I made 22 of them as needed to treat my whole space, 9 of which were to surround me in my tracking space w/ one above me too to start. I made a few at a time & added more as needed (bass traps, around & above desk, etc.). I could move them around as needed. It was never hard. And it was so worth it. What are you waiting for?

Remember, DIY OC 703 broadband absorbers are free-standing without the need for making frames. Mine are at least 15 years old & still standing strong. I vacuum them now & then, & 'em leave outside awhile. Then & the white burlap covering comes back to life.

I look at some of the pictures of some players' studio's & am appalled by the amount of hard surfaces in many rooms. Use OC 703 & get rid of the hard surfaces, friends. They may have a few panels or some foam in the corners, but the windows aren't covered & they have things like mirrors, picture frames, guitar cases & CD's on the walls?!? I used to do the same things. Cover those up with mover's blankets & get rid of all the hard surfaces in your room that you can. And treat your spaces. And a bed, acoustic foam or a pile of quilts are NOT room treatment. Many think carpeting will help when a wooden floor is actually the only untreated hard surface you should have in the room.

Barry, take that trip to J & S Supply Long Island City for the OC 703 (the cost of the bridge tolls is a small price to pay for what you're getting in terms of sound & control). You'll be SOOO glad you did. Rockwool? Why keep trying to convince yourselves that rockwool is easier to use & works exactly as well as OC 703 in controlling frequencies & early reflections? When it doesn't (please spare me the statistics). If it did, you'd find it in every pro studio. No argument here to the contrary from Chipotle & others can stand up against that fact.

When you have tried every treatment material available for decades as I have, including roxul & OC 703, it becomes very clear which material works best for achieving great acoustic sound, consistency in recordings, control of the room's full-spectrum frequencies & early reflections. At least it was clear to me.

Good luck Guys! Get Treated! No Matter The Material!

alohachris

PS: johnnyjobber, You won't find OC 703 at hardware stores or even locally in most cases. The best place to order OC 703 is through acoustic materials suppliers. Check for those locally. Or you can also check certified suppliers through Owens-Corning or online for additional material suppliers. Good Luck! -alohachris-

[Feste]

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

wish someone would do a new write up about these diy panels and traps. i can never find what the youtube videos use, and the different names of the material is confusing....i attempted last week to start buying supplies but got frustrated...safensound roxul rockwool etc

Johnny,
As I mentioned above, I used Knaulf 2” 6lb Earthwool in my wall broadband panels and 4” of the same Earthwool in my ceiling cloud panels. I used the 15” x 48” Rockwool Safe & Spound for my corner Bass traps. I also made a panel Bass trap with the Rockwool as well. In an early post of this thread I posted data for just about every material you can find that will help you determine what is best for you. I hope that helps.

[TBman]

Chris,

They don't print enough money to entice me to drive into NYC.

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Barry,

A few months back I provided you with a list of NYC-area suppliers for DIY materials for broadband absorbers. Remember?

Why not take that short trip to J & S Supply in Long Island City, NY, just across the bridge, & pick up a box of 6 or 12 2"x2'x4' OC 703 rigid fiberglass panels. Make some broadband absorbers & start getting that sound & control you've been chasing for years now, Bar. That's what pro studio's use, NOT ROCK WOOL! IT's right there waiting for you. Why procrastinate, Barry?

It seems like many at AGF have adopted rock wool as their 'go-to'room treatment material. OC 703 is better. Again, No professional studio I know of uses rock wool as treatment material.

Unlike using rockwool, if you guys use OC 703, you won't need frames! They are self supporting at 4" thick (two glued together). Frames provide more hard surfaces & are actually counter-productive to what you're trying to do with Room Treatment material sonically. Hard surfaces = more reflections to be controlled. You can even vary the panels' spacing for more or less room in your mix.

Fran Guidy has provided several very useful video's about how to easily make broadband absorbers using OC 703. It's simple, relatively cheap & easy to do, using a few common-sense precautions: do it outside if can, wear your facemasks, wear gloves & cover your arms. Cover the panels with a material of your choice - Walmart has cheap material plus everything you'll need to make the panels yourself, except the OC 703. My favorite spray glue for the material is Loctite 300 & hot-melt glue for the joints & corners.

As a reminder, Here are a couple of Fran's great video's RE: DIY Room Treatment:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

I made 22 of them as needed to treat my whole space, 9 of which were to surround me in my tracking space w/ one above me too to start. I made a few at a time & added more as needed (bass traps, around & above desk, etc.). I could move them around as needed. It was never hard. And it was so worth it. What are you waiting for?

Remember, DIY OC 703 broadband absorbers are free-standing without the need for making frames. Mine are at least 15 years old & still standing strong. I vacuum them now & then, & 'em leave outside awhile. Then & the white burlap covering comes back to life.

I look at some of the pictures of some players' studio's & am appalled by the amount of hard surfaces in many rooms. Use OC 703 & get rid of the hard surfaces, friends. They may have a few panels or some foam in the corners, but the windows aren't covered & they have things like mirrors, picture frames, guitar cases & CD's on the walls?!? I used to do the same things. Cover those up with mover's blankets & get rid of all the hard surfaces in your room that you can. And treat your spaces. And a bed, acoustic foam or a pile of quilts are NOT room treatment. Many think carpeting will help when a wooden floor is actually the only untreated hard surface you should have in the room.

Barry, take that trip to J & S Supply Long Island City for the OC 703 (the cost of the bridge tolls is a small price to pay for what you're getting in terms of sound & control). You'll be SOOO glad you did. Rockwool? Why keep trying to convince yourselves that rockwool is easier to use & works exactly as well as OC 703 in controlling frequencies & early reflections? When it doesn't (please spare me the statistics). If it did, you'd find it in every pro studio. No argument here to the contrary from Chipotle & others can stand up against that fact.

When you have tried every treatment material available for decades as I have, including roxul & OC 703, it becomes very clear which material works best for achieving great acoustic sound, consistency in recordings, control of the room's full-spectrum frequencies & early reflections. At least it was clear to me.

Good luck Guys! Get Treated! No Matter The Material!

alohachris

PS: johnnyjobber, You won't find OC 703 at hardware stores or even locally in most cases. The best place to order OC 703 is through acoustic materials suppliers. Check for those locally. Or you can also check certified suppliers through Owens-Corning or online for additional material suppliers. Good Luck! -alohachris-