#31
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Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom Martin D-18/UltraTonic Adamas I 2087GT-8 Ovation Custom Legend LX Guild F-212XL STD Huss & Dalton TD-R Taylor 717e Taylor 618e Taylor 614ce Larrivee D-50M/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Sunburst Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom RainSong BI-DR1000N2 Emerald X20 Yamaha FGX5 Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2 |
#32
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The IR thing continues to fascinate me, although I certainly had my problems with an overly ambient sound, at times, when gigging with ToneDexter. One of my best gigging rigs was using an onboard Aura-equipped little OO-size Cort guitar with the Aura Spectrum preamp. I was actually modeling with that guitar, since I would turn off the onboard Aura and use one of Spectrum's OM models which sounded much better (than the Cort's model specific sound images) to my ear. I never had feedback problems with that rig because it was a small guitar to begin with and I only needed around 35% sound image from the Spectrum. I'm still kicking myself for selling that guitar because the string spacing was a little too narrow for my taste. Analog systems like the Anthem SL and iMix have also been good for live performance, but I doubt that I'll ever stop chasing the digital rainbow. Its been part of the fun for me. |
#33
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Gear: PRS Hollowbody II Piezo, Martin HPL 000, PRS Angelus A60E, Martin 000-15M |
#34
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Give a man a fishing rod... and he's got the makings of a rudimentary banjo. |
#35
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Hi guys,
For my second trial, I made a short video of the experiment. The goal is to overcome the "distant" feeling of acoustic IRs to make just a solid string sound for LIVE use without quack. The guitar is a Martin 00-18V with an undersaddle piezo transducer plugged straight into a Torpedo CAB M+ remotely controlled by my computer. All the processing is done by the pedal. The output is recorded direct into a focusrite 2i2. 3 cycles (Fingerstyle, Strumming, G chord) 1) Piezo (Martin Thinline a.k.a. Fishman Matrix) 2) 2048 pts homemade IR 3) EQ from Torpedo CAB M + a super short IR (64pts) (This time it is not noise, it is computed for my 00-18V and its pickup) n°2 is definetly distant although a realistic aocustic image of the guitar n°3 has still some high end artifacts but is dry and very responsive (you can not hear/see that in the video) It's a work in progress.
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |
#36
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#3 is clearly the best, but might #2 with some bypass mixed in be similar?
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields |
#37
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Aha no. If you blend some raw signal, you will still have a 2048 pts tail… long but still there.
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |
#38
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When you make a 42ms IR (2048 pts at 48kHz), one could ask himself the tail comes from:
1) Propagation in air 2) Resonance in air (Room) 3) Propagation in wood 4) Resonance in wood (structure) 42ms at 340m/s gives around 14.3 meters... So obviously it can not be straight propagation. If your tail reaches 42ms it must feel like a small room with few reflections (the wet feel). Here is the ongitudinal spruce velocity... of course it's the shear velocity that counts... it will be lower by a factor. from Source link 42ms at 5000m/s makes 210m... So obviously the sound can not propagate straight along the guitar, it means that the sound must resonante and bounce between the limits of the box/top. The energy is confined into the top. For me it means that a FIR filter which can not "store signal" like a IIR filter (EQ) might not the best. Reducing the IR to 64 pts, we only get 1.3ms that is to say 6.6 meters of wood and probably much less if you consider shear velocity. Using EQ (IIR filter that have a memory) to do most of the jobs and add just a super short IR to account for the sound spreading over the top should work. ... to be continued...
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |
#39
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If I open one of my IRs in a viewer, the tail looks pretty trivial to me compared to what I would expect in a reverb. When I listen to your second sample, I hear what I don't like about 100% of some of my IRs. Generally 75/25 clears that up. I think my last demo shows a similar improvement going from 100% IR to 75/25 IR/Bypass. Also, truncating the second half of that IR (2048 truncated to 1024), made absolutely no difference to my ear. If the tail is a problem for making something sound "distant" then that should at least improve it.
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=634568 Here is the 100% IR from my last demo post. I moved it a little later in time and gained it up to make the first coefficient equal to 1 and easier to see.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields Last edited by jonfields45; 01-04-2022 at 07:25 AM. |
#40
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You are looking in linear scale. The tail looks insignificant but it is not. Also you can clearly see a pseudo period corresponding to the main low frequency resonance. (About 5ms which is 200Hz)
You don’t hear the difference because: long IR only matters for the low end. If you don’t focus on the low end you might not notice. Remember long IR enables to resolve long periods which correspond to short frequency. For example 100 Hz has a period of 0.01=10ms. With a 40ms IR you basically allow 100Hz to ring 4 times before vanishing… Most people are deaf at 100Hz. The more you blend the closer to the pickup. My goal is to alter the most the pickup without actually increase too much the actual impulse response of the system. When you use FIR filter, you basically trig the IR. In order to have a resonance at 100 Hz, you need 40ms Tail with those 4 periods. It means that every time you hit the note, these 4 periods will be added I think it does not work like that in reality. In reality, my guess is that the top and the air inside the box store mechanical energy. Like the swing on the play ground. As they are excited they accumulate more energy that enable some frequencies to ring longer. That « memory » of the energy stored can not be modelled by a FIR filter without adding unrealistic tail. That is why Fishman, from day one, used IIR filters to model the low end. Note that however we join somehow at some point. The more you let IIR do the job (EQ) the flatter the Short IR frequency response will be. PS: I am not advising against « blending »: to this day it is the best way to use our IR in a Live context. I am just trying another path. PS2: Jon when one blends interferences might occur between the IR convoluted and original signals. Check the spectrum for 10 blend settings. Peaks or notches can appear in your spectrum when the two contribution are balanced in amplitude and opposed in phase.
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |
#41
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Jon, I tried with another guitar and recordings and I have to admit I am not competitive yet with blending with a 2048 pts IR...
To be continued... Cuki
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |
#42
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New experiment
The goal is not to reach the mic tone but to get a better pickup tone. Still dry and direct but with less quack. I use HX native (Line 6 Helix plugin version) to correct to the maximum the tone with parametric EQs & Shelfves. (5x3 PEQs + 1 shelf EQ) The goal is that the IR carries the less correction, mostly do phase correction and remain short. I added a crossover. Everything above 1Khz gets a shorter IR (512pts), in order to have less high frequency spikes and metallic tail. Everything under 1 KHz gets a standard 1024 pts IR. Guitar: Martin 00-18V + Goldplus pickup (a.k.a Fishman matrix) 1) external mic SM57 2) raw Pickup 3) Pickup + 2048 pts IR (my current go-to process very mic-like) 4) New process: EQ + IR + crossover (512pts IR > 1KHz, and 1024pts IR < 1 KHz) 5) raw Pickup 4) is the new process. It's string focus and less quacky than the pickup. I know Jon will say that I found a very very complex way to imitate his recipe combined with a high pass filter... (which is very dry thanks to its hidden blend). At least this complex way is mine
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |
#43
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Cuki, #4, the New process: EQ + IR + crossover (512pts IR > 1KHz, and 1024pts IR < 1 KHz), sounds VERY GOOD!
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Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom Martin D-18/UltraTonic Adamas I 2087GT-8 Ovation Custom Legend LX Guild F-212XL STD Huss & Dalton TD-R Taylor 717e Taylor 618e Taylor 614ce Larrivee D-50M/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Sunburst Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom RainSong BI-DR1000N2 Emerald X20 Yamaha FGX5 Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2 |
#44
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Thanks Ken
It took me 3h to tune it… and I knew what to do. I have been working for few days on the idea, with different guitar.
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |
#45
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday." |