First real sdc/pair - for acoustic guitar

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I do solo guitar 99% of the time, and to me, mono just doesn't cut it regardless of the mic for that application. Once in a rare while I'll hear a released recording in mono, but the genre is almost always done in stereo, and to me, that captures the sound of the guitar more realistically. I've never made a mono recording I cared for with any mic, so I don't have any opinion of the Schoeps for mono.

And that's an amen!

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I do solo guitar 99% of the time, and to me, mono just doesn't cut it regardless of the mic for that application. Once in a rare while I'll hear a released recording in mono, but the genre is almost always done in stereo, and to me, that captures the sound of the guitar more realistically. I've never made a mono recording I cared for with any mic, so I don't have any opinion of the Schoeps for mono.

And that's an amen. Expecially for a flattop steel string if compared to possible results with a classical guitar (the extra sharp transients of steel strings more easily turns into trash).

[olidward]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I do solo guitar 99% of the time, and to me, mono just doesn't cut it regardless of the mic for that application. Once in a rare while I'll hear a released recording in mono, but the genre is almost always done in stereo, and to me, that captures the sound of the guitar more realistically. I've never made a mono recording I cared for with any mic, so I don't have any opinion of the Schoeps for mono.

Impeccable reply, thanks. It (mono) would be a temporary situation, for the greater good (having a solid pair of SDC's, eventually). Solo guitar is very much a part of my repertoire. That said, songwriting with vocals, harmonies, and occasionally percussion, is another aspect of my recording life. It's pretty even, in terms of completed works.

I didn't bother with trying to get an acceptable recording of some fingerstyle pieces with cardioids (stereo), so I have no problem waiting a little longer for a pair that will do such compositions justice.

On the subject of the MK41:
I just came across this soundscape, with such soft playing at times, that I find it hard to imagine without a supercardioid (MK41's) - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Ho6Lb57YM

That is not a sound I plan to achieve this year. But getting very soft notes like those to sound clear and audible, without forcing them by hand, to anywhere close to that degree is appealing to me.

Thanks for the insights everyone.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by olidward

On the subject of the MK41:
I just came across this soundscape, with such soft playing at times, that I find it hard to imagine without a supercardioid (MK41's) - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Ho6Lb57YM
That is not a sound I plan to achieve this year. But getting very soft notes like those to sound clear and audible, without forcing them by hand, to anywhere close to that degree is appealing to me.

Does sound very nice. A lot depends on the piece being played and the post recording processing. A very nice mike to be sure but I do not think that exact mike has that much to do with the package.

[alohachris]

Aloha Olidward,

I would like to PM you, Olidward. I have an opportunity that may help you on your Schoeps SDC quest. Please enable PM. Then we can expand to email for even more clarity.

This is not BS.

alohachris

[olidward]

Sure, I'll activate PM's. Give me a second to figure out how.

Edit: receiving PMs was already activated. Were you not able to send one?

[olidward]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Does sound very nice. A lot depends on the piece being played and the post recording processing. A very nice mike to be sure but I do not think that exact mike has that much to do with the package.

Thanks for the reality check. I may have overestimated the contribution of a super-cardioid to a playstyle like his.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by olidward

Sure, I'll activate PM's. Give me a second to figure out how.

Edit: receiving PMs was already activated. Were you not able to send one?

Just a thought...as a “Registered User” (as opposed to a paying “Charter Member”), your PM limit is 20 (100 for CMs). So, if your inbox is full, no one can send you a PM. You may want to check.

[olidward]

As promised, the artifacts of my room. Playstyles include:
strumming + melodies w/ pick
strumming + vocals w/ harmonies
picked version of a fingerstyle song (possibly some fingerstyle in there; very quiet mix

They are all scratch-demos from when I got my audio interface so everything from playing to processing was very lax and based on trial and error a few months into moving from audacity to reaper.

---
My links didn't work. Someone posted working links below.
---

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by olidward

On the subject of the MK41:
I just came across this soundscape, with such soft playing at times, that I find it hard to imagine without a supercardioid (MK41's) - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Ho6Lb57YM

That is not a sound I plan to achieve this year. But getting very soft notes like those to sound clear and audible, without forcing them by hand, to anywhere close to that degree is appealing to me.

Wow! What a beautiful recording. Thank you so much for posting this video olidward. Really enjoyed the composition, the playing and the sound.

As Rick-Slo Said, I do think this song may have been heavily processed afterwards, to get that super smooth cinematic sound. But I love it! Would love to know exactly what he used in processing.

I was so impressed by him that I clicked on his youtube video page. Unfortunately he does not have a lot of other videos.
However this one, recorded seven years ago, you can clearly see he is using Schoeps Mics in X/Y formation for recording of all the instruments.


Mics are very important. I have a Stereo set of Schoeps and a stereo set of AT4050's. For me the Schoeps was the sound I needed. But honestly, the Quality of the playing, positioning of mics, well treated room & processing reigns supreme.
If you are not familiar with Stephen Wake, he uses AT4050's...but records in a pro studio using them in Omni pattern, very wide spread position. My point is everything in your chain makes the difference. Mics are the start. But how you play, how you position your mics, and how you process is another.

What works for one person, may not work for another. I dream of the day when I can play as smoothly as these two.

[Doug Young]

Your links don't work. My guess is that you can't use the URL shortner version on AGF. You need the real url.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by olidward

...

Fixed links

[olidward]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Wow! What a beautiful recording. Thank you so much for posting this video olidward. Really enjoyed the composition, the playing and the sound.

As Rick-Slo Said, I do think this song may have been heavily processed afterwards, to get that super smooth cinematic sound. But I love it! Would love to know exactly what he used in processing.

I was so impressed by him that I clicked on his youtube video page. Unfortunately he does not have a lot of other videos.
However this one, recorded seven years ago, you can clearly see he is using Schoeps Mics in X/Y formation for recording of all the instruments.


Mics are very important. I have a Stereo set of Schoeps and a stereo set of AT4050's. For me the Schoeps was the sound I needed. But honestly, the Quality of the playing, positioning of mics, well treated room & processing reigns supreme.
If you are not familiar with Stephen Wake, he uses AT4050's...but records in a pro studio using them in Omni pattern, very wide spread position. My point is everything in your chain makes the difference. Mics are the start. But how you play, how you position your mics, and how you process is another.

What works for one person, may not work for another. I dream of the day when I can play as smoothly as these two.

You're welcome! Interesting observation. Thanks for the insights regarding the chain. Anything wider than MK4 and possibly MK22 is anyone's guess in my room. I haven't been bothered by it using cardioids but I'm sure more experienced ears would detect issues

Thanks for fixing the links Keith! And Doug for informing me! Checking out your recordings now.

[b1j]

I’ve been hanging around listening.

Doug, I tend to record songs with acoustic, bass, vocals and BGVs, maybe an electric lead, and even keyboards. But I always seem to have important moments in the song when it’s just the acoustic — the intro, or a focus moment near the coda, something like that. Because of these solo moments, I’ve always wanted the acoustic track in stereo. Even beyond those moments, for most of the song, the stereo nature of the acoustic track is noticeable in flashes. So even though it’s a full “band” sound for most of the song, I still value the fact that I tracked the acoustic in stereo.

But with my current room, I have no hope of capturing the exquisite dynamic nuances we heard in that video. It’s close mic’ing for me or nothing.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by b1j

I’ve been hanging around listening.

Doug, I tend to record songs with acoustic, bass, vocals and BGVs, maybe an electric lead, and even keyboards. But I always seem to have important moments in the song when it’s just the acoustic — the intro, or a focus moment near the coda, something like that. Because of these solo moments, I’ve always wanted the acoustic track in stereo. Even beyond those moments, for most of the song, the stereo nature of the acoustic track is noticeable in flashes. So even though it’s a full “band” sound for most of the song, I still value the fact that I tracked the acoustic in stereo.

But with my current room, I have no hope of capturing the exquisite dynamic nuances we heard in that video. It’s close mic’ing for me or nothing.

Recording in stereo or mono is always an artistic choice, and depends on what you want. For solo fingerstyle guitar, virtually everything out there (recorded recently, anyway) is stereo, but the choice is less clear as soon as other instruments are involved. My bias would be that if the guitar is strongly featured - the key instrument, I'd make it stereo. I go with Segovia's idea that a guitar is a "small orchestra", and I want it to fill the sound stage. But if the guitar isn't the orchestra, and is just another instrument among many, then mono probably makes more sense, so you can place each instrument in the stereo space.

I don't think close micing means you can't have dynamic nuances, that's in how you play. I assume you're talking about the Guitarune Matre video. Very nice indeed, but notice where he's recording. Looks like his kitchen, not an acoustically treated studio. What I mostly hear is quite a lot of reverb, and a player with a very sensitive touch, good phrasing, nice dynamics, great tone. He says his mics are around his knees, just out of the camera view. That can still be pretty close, I've used that approach as well for videos in an untreated room. Micing close will really pick up what you're playing, so put those nuances in, and the mic will hear them. 90% of what we hear in videos like this is a really good player, it's not so much the gear, tho I'm sure it helps to have good stuff. It helps that he's getting a nice visual look, too!