Is this a $10,000 guitar?

[Maryc-k]

Certain brands and models are still commanding high sale and resale prices. SCGC is not one, and I have to admit, I think Froggy has lost its aura too, at least on resale.

The time to sell was about this time last year into the early part of Summer. After that I think sanity has returned, unless of course you are selling a small shop mandolin made by certain small shop builders.

Let's face it, everything comes and goes in waves.

[gr81dorn]

Originally Posted by Shishigashira

Meanwhile Eastman will sell you a hand built all solid Koa guitar with the works (pickup, sound-port, chamfered armrest) for about $2000 as well. Is the Santa Cruz worth 5 times what the Eastman costs? That's up to the individual to decide.

https://reverb.com/item/62355581-eas...gs-pickup-9368

having had lots of Eastmans, they are really a marvel of value. I can't specifically speak to the wages/conditions, but China is still China in that respect, even if that company does things relatively ethically and humanely. I know for a fact that Taylor pays fairly and treats employees well in Mexico, so the economic factor is still pretty significant but, to your point, unlikely to be so wide that the disparity between what you get for $2k is that dramatic.

I still think there are a lot of people who wouldn't even consider playing or owning a guitar made in China, regardless of the quality. Some for ethical reasons, most for cork-sniffing reasons.

That said, I really respect Richard, he was a super sweet genetlemen when I got to meet him a 5-6 years ago. Guys like him look at the ART of guitar-making as ART and art is subjective and worth what someone will pay. Might as well get what someone will pay for it.

[jaymarsch]

It’s a $10K+ guitar because that is how it’s priced. Now, is it worth that much? Who knows? For some folks, yes. Other folks, no. Probably a few maybes. Santa Cruz makes a wonderful guitar and if it was the exact tone and playability that someone was seeking and they had the money, why not if it’s worth it to them?
In all of the 55 years that I have been playing, buying, and selling guitars, I have yet to find a graph or a spreadsheet that empirically states what guitar feature is worth what price. It’s a moving target. I have always just tried to buy the best guitar that I can given my personal budget at the time. In 1971, it was $35 for an off the shelf Yamaha and in 2018, it was $6,800 for a custom ordered, hand crafted Kramer. Were either of those worth what I paid? I don’t know but both guitars have given me an enormous amount of satisfaction and pleasure.
I have a guitar playing friend who plays a beat up second hand Takamine that she bought for $250. Am I happier playing my guitars than she is when she plays hers? Absolutely not. We keep it about the music and neither of us care about anything else.
Best,
Jayne

[KenL]

Yeah, but there's FREE SHIPPING!

[catndahats]

My grumpy old man answer:
is it a $10k guitar?
Looks like it from the seller's ad. The seller does move a lot of that builder's guitars and have for years, so I gather they know the market for that particular guitar. It will sell, but not one I would consider.

Would I buy it?
No.
Why not?
The value / cost ratio does not work for me with that builder on new models anymore, and contrary to popular opinion having previously gone down that road with that seller it's a double no for me.

[tommieboy]

Originally Posted by hamburg325

https://reverb.com/item/65061211-san...custom-adi-koa

$10,200, to be precise.

Don't really want to point fingers at any particular builder. But I will. Love SC guitars. But, this relatively unremarkable "custom" OM feels like it throws a sharp elbow into the definition of what a $10K guitar should be.

Koa ain't Brazilian. Or Madagascar. Or even cocobolo. Yes, it's lovely. But small builder prices appear to be rising in the absence of any sort of value gravity.

I get it. Builders like SC want to be "boutique," because that's the market segment with less price sensitivity. And I certainly want these builders to prosper.

But, $10K is a threshold number in guitars. Or at least it used to be.

I observed over the past few years that a $10,000 asking price is not uncommon for a new boutique Adi/Koa OM. I grew up around Koa everything (interior design, furniture, guitars, jewelry, etc.) and do not find the back on that guitar particularly attractive. Koa might not be Brazilian, but Koa can excel in areas where Brazilian can't compete. And some place a much higher value on Koa than on Brazilian.

Tommy

[fpuhan]

My immediate thought when I saw the subject line was, "It is, if someone is willing to pay that for it."

I haven't changed my mind.

[fregly]

You have to price high to get the attention of members of the oligarchy who play guitar.

[hamburg325]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

Certain brands and models are still commanding high sale and resale prices. SCGC is not one, and I have to admit, I think Froggy has lost its aura too, at least on resale.

The time to sell was about this time last year into the early part of Summer. After that I think sanity has returned, unless of course you are selling a small shop mandolin made by certain small shop builders.

Let's face it, everything comes and goes in waves.

Agree about both Santa Cruz and Froggy having gone most stratospheric on prices for relatively straightforward guitars built with Adirondack, rosewoods, and, yes, koa.

Both have positioned themselves as "custom shop" builders for obvious economic reasons, given that Asian builders like Eastman have improved quality and are making real inroads into the low and middle price tiers.

Question I would ask is whether SC and Froggy really deserve to be in the "boutique" (as opposed to small maker) consideration step.

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by hamburg325

https://reverb.com/item/65061211-san...custom-adi-koa

$10,200, to be precise.

Don't really want to point fingers at any particular builder. But I will. Love SC guitars. But, this relatively unremarkable "custom" OM feels like it throws a sharp elbow into the definition of what a $10K guitar should be.

Koa ain't Brazilian. Or Madagascar. Or even cocobolo. Yes, it's lovely. But small builder prices appear to be rising in the absence of any sort of value gravity.

I get it. Builders like SC want to be "boutique," because that's the market segment with less price sensitivity. And I certainly want these builders to prosper.

But, $10K is a threshold number in guitars. Or at least it used to be.

But it includes FREE SHIPPING!!!

[SuperB23]

Santa Cruz is building fine guitars. I remember when you could get a D/PW SCGC for $2100 brand new! Boy I sound old when I say that but I do remember it. I remember buying a Tony Rice Pro used for $3k back in the day too. Boy those days are long gone! I'm thankful for brands like Iris who are making guitars that are on par tonally and power wise but for the 2002 prices.

[upsidedown]

Sylvan is a reputable shop, so maybe the price is within reason. Who knows?

Every time I look I see used guitars with asking prices more than double what they were a couple years ago. I guess the outrage threshold is $9K.

[ScottSD]

Sure, it's a $10,000 guitar. But it will Never be My $10,000 guitar. Whether I can afford it or not, I've never considered dropping that much coin on any guitar. If it's your cup of tea, mores the power to you. Presently, I'm thrilled to hang out in the less rarefied "big name standard models"...

Scott

[frankmcr]

Is that a 3-piece top? Or maybe 4-piece??

Looks like a separate piece (or 2) of wood from the soundhole down to the bottom edge, aligned with the bridge. Different color(s).

[zombywoof]

About the only thing I have learned reading forums is that I could not afford a number of the guitars I own if I had to buy them today. The most I have ever paid for a guitar was $5K. But even just five years down the road $8K for that guitar would be considered a good deal.