When to give up on a song?

[Allman_Fan]

How do you know to give up on a song and start something new?
How long after beginning the song, can/do you make this determination?Maybe the song is too difficult; maybe it’s too simple. Maybe it is just not right for you.
(My focus here is performance repertoire.)

With this in mind, how do you choose songs to learn?

[Minotaur]

I wish I knew that too. I have two songs driving me nuts... Ain't No Sunshine and How You Remind Me.

I like the way Bill Wither's and some other covers play Aint No Sunshine by finger picking. I can't seem to do that yet. Others do a straight-forward strum, but I can't seem to nail down the pattern. Maybe it's because I'm not singing, and trying to play along with a recording.

And the chords to How You Remind Me, while easy, are so similar and vary by maybe one note I get lost from measure to measure.

Probably the best thing to do, answering the question myself, is to put the song down for a few weeks, no matter how much you want to nail it. Forcing it will not make it come easier. It will only frustrate you more.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

How do you know to give up on a song and start something new?
How long after beginning the song, can/do you make this determination?Maybe the song is too difficult; maybe it’s too simple. Maybe it is just not right for you.
(My focus here is performance repertoire.)

With this in mind, how do you choose songs to learn?

Totally arbitrary I know but to me if I have not got a handle on a piece by about one week per minute of song length (not counting repeats of course) I begin to wonder.

An exception would be some piece that is in a style relatively foreign to me where there are techniques used that I am not adept at. Of course then it would be best to first work on those techniques and then get back to seriously working on the piece that uses them.

[Tone Gopher]

Do you have to give it up or can you set it aside?

Give it a rest for a while and revisit later. If you still want to play it, only you can judge whether it is appropriate or even meant to be. I've songs that I started 20+ years ago that never made it to performance level but I still enjoy working on them to see where they take me.

[Christian Reno]

Never - I set things aside if I lose interest, but they are always in the back of my mind. Some of the best instumental performance pieces I have were pieces I set aside, then went back to later. Sometimes much later.

I have found that certain techniques that may be needed for a particular piece can seem impossible at first. Then, you set it aside and stumble onto that technique through some other experience. It clicks, and you go back to the piece you set aside and finish it.

I hope that makes sense. It sure has worked for me for a long, long, time.

[Allman_Fan]

OK, I wasn't talking about some metaphysical dogma of life philosophy of never giving up, yadda, yadda . . .

Let's put some parameters on it . . . if you "give up on it for more than 6 months," let's consider that "giving up." Put another way, you have a scheduled performance 6 months from now, when do you know and how do you know when "disgression is the better part of valor?"

And (re-emphasizing), HOW do you pick your songs? Because, if you keep starting stuff that you end up ditching, well, that ain't too productive, is it?

[Fatstrat]

I find one of the good things about getting older (I'm 50) is that my patience level is on the rise. As a youngster if I couldn't reasonably master a song fairly quickly, I'd usually give up on it. But now I just keep plugging away at it. I choose songs to learn based mostly on them being songs I like. I generally have 2 0r 3 that I work on simultaneously. Concentrating mostly on newest one and using previous mostly or newly mastered songs as back up when I get bored or frustrated.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

OK, I wasn't talking about some metaphysical dogma of life philosophy of never giving up, yadda, yadda . . .

Neither was I. If there was something that attracted you to a song in the first place, there may be something there worth learning. Case in point: I was recently toying with Larry Pattis' arrangement of "Waltzing Matilda" and found that a bit from a Martin Simpson tune worked very well in that context. I have never been able to play the whole Martin Simpson tune at concert velocity but I enjoy his music. I learned some useful techniques from the experience of developing that tune and can now apply them elsewhere.

Shame on me for waxing philosophical on you now but that is part of my path as a musician.

You'd rather a short answer to your original question? Now that I know you better, I'd say that if you cannot master a tune after three tries, you should move on.

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

And (re-emphasizing), HOW do you pick your songs?

I look for the obscure tunes that feel need better representation. I see from your sig that you enjoy (at least a lil') John Prine. I used to play about 15-20 of his tunes, I learned a lot of early David Bromberg as well. Nowadays, I have expanded my music to include delta blues, Celtic, and ki ho'alu. I play to enjoy and educate.

[ewalling]

I consider myself quite persistent when learning new stuff, but with a number of pieces I've thrown in the towel because I seemed to be spending longer than normal in making progress. One of these pieces is Big Bill's House Rent Stomp. This was one of the pieces that got me into fingerstyle/ragtime playing in the first place and I've had a few attempts at it. It's not the fingering of it, it's the sheer percussive feel and swing.

Now that you've brought the topic up, though, my determination to learn this piece has come back! Where's my guitar?!

[Christian Reno]

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

...Now that I know you better, I'd say that if you cannot master a tune after three tries, you should move on...

After seeing the OP's response, I think you are right. Patience is a virtue, but not all will have it.

[Allman_Fan]

Shame on me for waxing philosophical on you now but that is part of my path as a musician.

>Well, my point is that if we get too philosophical the question loses relevance. I mean, in an abstract sense, I guess I never give up on ANYTHING. In the back of my mind, there is a chance (albeit small) I'll play Carnegie Hall!

>Ha, three tries! If I used that criteria, I'd know zero songs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John Prine songs . . . let's use one an as example. Spanish Pipedream.
"She was a level headed dancer . . ."

So suppose you like that song, think it's clever and think you could do it.
Just you singing and strumming guitar.

So you learn the chords. You get the words and start memorizing it. You actually start trying to make your vocal sound like John Prine. Now you are putting it all together. And then you realize there is a instrumental break between each verse. How can you simulate that when you only strum guitar? So you leave it out and charge right into the next verse, but that sounds really awkward and it shortens the song from 3 minutes to 1:45! So you added your own little chord change and played it to a friend and he looked kinda funny and said, "But that part is not how it goes."

So, you ditch the song . . . pretty much after learning the whole thing.

How do you minimize on the wasted time - THAT'S my question.

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by Christian Reno

After seeing the OP's response, I think you are right. Patience is a virtue, but not all will have it.

Just curious, how many songs do you currently have that you are willing to perform?

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

How do you minimize on the wasted time - THAT'S my question.

You picked the wrong song - you knew that it had an instrumental break yet you chose to learn in anyhow. Time wasted. Shame on you.

or...

You enjoyed the music and learned something from experience.

or...

The guitar is not for you. Do you have one of those lil' lemons filled with sand?

[Cue Zephyr]

Ok, this is what I do:
I try some songs, and stick with the one I think will work for me. I practice this for a while until I have memorized it, then I move on to another song but still keep perfecting the other one. This way I'm always learning something new.
Good luck.

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

You picked the wrong song - you knew that it had an instrumental break yet you chose to learn in anyhow. Time wasted. Shame on you.

OK. But rather than "shame on me" I'd like to learn from my mistakes. That's why I' asking. Could be other reasons. Such as . . .
1. The vocal range is not something I can "pull off." Well, I really can, but I listened to it on tape and the falsetto I was using for the high part just doesn't "sound right."
2. Or, the song is too sad for the rest of my stuff. I thought I could pull off the "thoughtful singer/songwriter," but I'm having much more success with the "happy go lucky party guy."

These are examples, they are not an exhaustive list.

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

or...

You enjoyed the music and learned something from experience.

Well, yeah, that's a given. But I'd like to do better. You know, onward and upward!

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

or...
The guitar is not for you. Do you have one of those lil' lemons filled with sand?

So I should try the piano? Banjo? Doesn't the desire to become more efficient transcend type of musical instrument? Other non-musical pursuits?
I have no idea what the " lil' lemons filled with sand" refers to . . .