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  #31  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:10 PM
AndrewG AndrewG is offline
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My one regret after 50 year's playing is not learning theory. I have, however, developed a good ear and can transcribe fairly accurately from recordings. Put some sheet music in front of me though, and all you'll get is a blank stare and a silent guitar.
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  #32  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:10 PM
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My one regret after 50 year's playing is not learning theory. I have, however, developed a good ear and can transcribe fairly accurately from recordings. Put some sheet music in front of me though, and all you'll get is a blank stare and a silent guitar.
Sheet music is not theoretical. You just have to memorize data.
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  #33  
Old 10-18-2017, 04:43 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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My feeling is that, broadly, there are two approaches to learning:

a) start doing something now, with no knowledge or experience, and possibly put a framework on it afterwards. Effort first, understanding later.
b) obtain the framework prior to doing anything. Understanding first, effort later.

I've been a player for 50+ years. I learn by figuring things out myself. I have self-studied LOTS of theory (and I love it) but only after gaining some level of mastery first. I could never put in the time to learn something theoretical I might not use for years if ever.

But not everyone is like me. Many need to understand a greater context, or underlying principle, before they commit to the effort.

I also think the longer you play, the more you value names for the concepts you are already using. It's kind of a validation that we all experience some common understandings about music, even if we don't always use the same terms.
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  #34  
Old 10-18-2017, 05:50 PM
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I know very very little music theory.

If I had to though, because I know theory exists, I could research chord structure and teach myself how to construct chords in any tuning.

And then from there, if I wanted to, I could learn the triads that harmonize the C scale and then branch out and learn to harmonize all the keys with the related triads.

I could then teach myself the 4 or 5 scales for several keys and work in the pentatonic scales.

I could then teach myself the various chord progressions beyond I IV V and also memorize them including I IV V in many different keys.

After doing all that I would be much more informed than I am now.
I would probably be able to play in a group environment and accompany a singer as well.

None of that is going to get me through Kishibe's "Rainy Window."

I have to practice.

You have to have a purpose/use and a goal otherwise you will just flounder around and be great at music trivia but can't play a darn thing decently.

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  #35  
Old 10-18-2017, 07:04 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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I have no use for the theory. That's to say applying it means to learn it and that means less free time to play. Some will argue that correlating the two would produce better results but that's assuming much about the musicality of the person.

A person of an expansive musical capacity will express it so much better as a self-taught minimalist with a respectable skills set than a highly competent theorist who possesses little capacity for making music, much less expressing it. Both might have similar desires but the point is theory without the inner musicality is pretty much table talk. Sight reading chops, in the same vein, produces a musician who might lack all manner of passion. When the camera pans the orchestra you can pick out the passionate. All others look like table dressing.
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  #36  
Old 10-18-2017, 07:43 PM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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I'm very glad I studied theory, because it allows me to talk above people's heads and spout impressive sounding music trivia thereby disguising the fact that I can't play a darn thing decently anymore.
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  #37  
Old 10-18-2017, 08:06 PM
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I'm very glad I studied theory, because it allows me to talk above people's heads and spout impressive sounding music trivia thereby disguising the fact that I can't play a darn thing decently anymore.
We'll take up a collection for you and buy you some chops...

Reminds me of the woman on the diet in a restaurant who heard someone say "fat" at the next table and jumps up and says "No I'm not."
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  #38  
Old 10-18-2017, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
I know very very little music theory.

If I had to though, because I know theory exists, I could research chord structure and teach myself how to construct chords in any tuning.

And then from there, if I wanted to, I could learn the triads that harmonize the C scale and then branch out and learn to harmonize all the keys with the related triads.

I could then teach myself the 4 or 5 scales for several keys and work in the pentatonic scales.

I could then teach myself the various chord progressions beyond I IV V and also memorize them including I IV V in many different keys.

After doing all that I would be much more informed than I am now.
I would probably be able to play in a group environment and accompany a singer as well.

None of that is going to get me through Kishibe's "Rainy Window."

I have to practice.

You have to have a purpose/use and a goal otherwise you will just flounder around and be great at music trivia but can't play a darn thing decently.

LOL! Good one Barry......and, for many SO true!
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  #39  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:41 AM
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I'm very glad I studied theory, because it allows me to talk above people's heads and spout impressive sounding music trivia thereby disguising the fact that I can't play a darn thing decently anymore.
Ssshhh! That's why most of us like theory...
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  #40  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:44 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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None of that is going to get me through Kishibe's "Rainy Window."

I have to practice.
Exactly. Theory won't make you a better player. Only practice will do that.

Theory just helps you name what you're doing wrong.

E.g., instead of saying "I played a wrong chord there, it should have been this shape...." you can say "I played a G13b9 when it should have been a Db7#9..."
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Last edited by Kerbie; 10-19-2017 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Removed masked profanities
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  #41  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:58 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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Sight reading chops, in the same vein, produces a musician who might lack all manner of passion. When the camera pans the orchestra you can pick out the passionate. All others look like table dressing.
But you can be sure that all of them can read standard notation, and have a good grasp of theory. And you can bet they are not "sight reading" their parts in performance. They know them. I'm not sure why so many players (especially guitarists!) feel that understanding some basic theory somehow diminishes them as an artist.

(Note I said "players", not "musicians")

Last edited by RustyAxe; 10-19-2017 at 11:40 AM.
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  #42  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:05 PM
JGinNJ JGinNJ is offline
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Whether you need music theory depends on what style you're playing. There's plenty of people playing a lot of blues, folk, bluegrass, and rock without knowing much more than a few basic chord "shapes" for major, minor, and 7 chords, and "box" patterns for soloing.

That's one of the uniquely versatile things about guitar- it can be just as much how you physically play the notes (fingerpick, flat pick, etc.) as whether you know 6 different ways to play a m7b5 chord.

If you really want to unlock the potential of the guitar to play more than simple 3 chord songs, yes, you have to learn theory. But you can be practical about it, it doesn't have to be an academic exercise and an end in itself.
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  #43  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:32 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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I totally agree with JGinNJ


There are many aspects to "musical theory"

For strumming guitarist or a solo folk singer, it probably is not that important. Nor for a guy who plays his favourite style, whatever that might be, all his life. One just learns what he needs and that's that

If you play blues, learning only major scales probably won't do the trick, but you can learn blues without learning scales at all..

Then if what one needs is arranging, transposing, composing or even interpreting melodies, harmonies, rythms, songs, scores, voices, you name it... one will probably find bits of theory handy, because one can thus name whatever one is doing.

Even pictographic guitar tabs and string names are theory of some sort.

My brother is a music teacher, and he certainly knows much more on this topic than I do. Strangely it is I who writes stuff for our band and he is more of a soloist...

he studied it in school whole his life and I tend to learn it on the go. Improvisations and lofty soloes come more naturally to him, but I love stories and I can put together a complete song with meaningful lyrics and mood that people react to (and where his soloing can shine)

So that is my experience.
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Last edited by Standicz; 10-19-2017 at 02:51 PM.
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  #44  
Old 10-19-2017, 11:47 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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Its always a few pages in to these types of posts when people assert that its "better" to not know theory - that the act of learning something will make you a worse musician; unable to write songs or be able to play expressively. Yep, ignorance always beats knowledge. Pilots unencumbered by knowledge of physics can just "feel" the plane. Surgeons who didn't fuss about anatomy but just dove right in have a better instinct on how to operate. Carpenters who don't waste their time on geometry are better because they intuitively know how to build. Judges and lawyers who don't clutter up their minds with case law and legal codes do way better just using their common sense.....

There was a time way back that ended in the early 20th century in America when being a musician was seen the same as a skilled trade. Part of what killed that (and unfortunately other trades) is the growing contempt for knowledge and training - and for those that still value it.
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  #45  
Old 10-20-2017, 12:09 AM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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If music was a mere trade limited to people with formal education, that would be a sad world.

Music can be found in pretty much any culture around the world at any point in history and most of these folks never used much of the theory we are speaking of.

Music really is something that comes naturally to us, humans, unlike say, piloting an airplane or doing brain surgery or even constructing a cabinet...To elaborate further, first there was music and then musical theory, but airplanes really could not fly without the knowledge of aerodynamics. Here is a better analogy; without economics, people would still exchange things.

Let's face it, understanding the theory most likely will push you forward (as most people here allready suggested) but you -have to- have the feeling for it to be a musician and it is pretty much the only thing you really -need- Wisdom is not a substitute here.

And by the way there are countless trained and skilled musicians making their living playing music all around the globe, even in the USA, there is no growing contempt or a dead trade.

Last edited by Standicz; 10-20-2017 at 12:59 AM.
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