#31
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Neck thickness is also an important factor, where thicker necks generally require less effort to get the leverage needed for a barre chord. I haven't played a Taylor for a while so my memory is not correct but I think they have rather thin necks, so barree will require more effort and your hands get tired faster. Maybe try to go to a guitar store just look at neck profiles and thicknesses and pick a few different ones see if any of those make it more easy and then stick with that neck size and shape.
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#32
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Wrong!!! Excessive pressure with the thumb creates unnecessary tension and ultimately leads to left hand injury. The most important aspect of playing any instrument is becoming sensitized to how much pressure is actually required, and for barres if you need to pinch to get a clear sound there are either other technical issues at play or the instruments action is badly set up.
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#33
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__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#34
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Your insults are just that, insults. Not worth my time!
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#35
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don't squeeze the hand too much, use the thumb on the back of the neck as a pivot point for the fingers, there's been some recent threads about this sort of thing
you're strenngth will return in time, keep the hand limber and don't try to hard, this will help you avoid a carpal tunnel injury |
#36
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Last edited by Trevor B.; 03-11-2016 at 08:09 AM. |
#37
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It's worth pointing that when some people talk of "gravity" - using the "weight" of the arm to achieve the barre - that makes no sense if the thumb is not also pinching. If it wasn't, the hand would simply fall off the neck! Also the role of the right arm is crucial. It's that that holds the guitar in place - not only to stop the neck falling, but to brace any action of the left arm in barring. So there are three forces involved: thumb, and both arms (bracing the guitar against the body). These are all gentle forces, but they all work together. (And with a well set-up guitar - as you say - the pressure needed for barre is not great anyway.) The thumb can do it on its own, but (I agree) that's not only poor advice, but is not how anyone plays barres anyway - seeing as the right arm at least is always on the guitar. I think the problem some teachers have (I had it myself for a while) is to ignore the role of the arm(s), because it's become subconscious. Consciously, it seems to be the thumb that's doing the work, and we believe the reason it feels easy is because we're so practiced. In fact, it's easy because we're using our arms too, unawares. This is why it matters to underline the role of the arms. But we shouldn't, at the same time, pretend the thumb plays no part; it does. We just shouldn't exaggerate it. But also, the process you mention of "becoming sensitized to how much pressure is actually required" is an automatic one. Provided we start with good practice, then the hands and arms learn their roles over time through repetition of the actions, finding the optimum distribution of muscle force, to be as economic with pressure as possible. Just enough, in the right places, and no more. That's the beauty of it, IMO. Our bodies learn through repetition of physical tasks, without us having to dictate how our muscles work - but if we start with bad position, then that's what they learn, and repetition then ends up as bad habits and, in the worst cases, pain and injury.
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#38
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JonPR,
"Gentle pinch", I'm good with that. Perhaps my sensitivity here comes from several students who were referred to me because they'd previously been taught to play with excessive tension and were in distress as a result. In my experience it's a lot harder to fix a bad habit than teach someone starting with a blank slate so I'm in complete agreement with your last point. |
#39
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Any way you slice it, conditioning and repetition plays a role.
Good technique and proper setup is clearly important, but most humans don't come out of the gate with sufficient strength and coordination for accurate repetitions of the movement, like any skilled physical activity. I've been involved in skilled, coordinated athletics my entire life. Learning to execute this motion properly has been no different than any other trained activity.
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Breedlove C25/CRe-h Taylor 516e FLTD Taylor GS6 Gibson J-30 Walden CO500 (camper) Fender FSR BSB Telecaster |
#40
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Spring grips are your friend.
I do two 60/rep exercises every day and my hands have gotten really strong. So strong that playing guitar no longer activates the arthritis in my left hand! Take it easy and work up to a good number of reps. If you're a golfer, you will also add yds to your drives! |
#41
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I'm not a big fan of hand exercisers like that. It's not really more strength you need - at least not the kind of strength those devices will give you.
The act of fretting strings is a complex one, and you can only really learn the proper distribution of force - unfortunately - by playing the guitar. A device that I once used, better designed than those spring grips but still fatally flawed, was a gripmaster: Pretty good for exercising the fingers independently, especially ring and pinky... BUT - two big problems with it: 1. the buttons are smooth. If you haven't yet built up toughened skin on the fngertips, then when you get back on the guitar it will actually hurt more, because you're pressing harder, but now you have a steel string under your finger! Ow! (Glue little bits of guitar string on the buttons, that would fix that, I guess.) 2. The angle is all wrong. Firstly the buttons are all in a row, which is obviously a limitation. But mainly (see pic) it encourages you to grip between fingertips and palm, which is wrong. You can hold it (awkwardly) in such a way that it's between fingertips and thumb, which is better, but still not much like playing the guitar. I used one of these for a while when I was a beginner - I wanted some way of exercising my hand at the office, away from my guitar - but I soon found it pretty much useless; aside from giving that pinky a workout I guess. There are other, more useful, hand exercises you can do (away from the guitar) which involve no devices at all. Easy to work some out using common sense, but nothing will ever get close enough to actually playing the **** guitar .
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#42
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putting the thumb behind, but forward of the barre ? I can't do that ,, hand is too small .. I did get the thumb a tad forward, and behind. I will work on that .. barre chords are xxxxxx .. easy on my Mex Strat .. ha ha ha
That thumb ? If I have this correct .. get the thumb a bit forward of the finger barre .. Ok ,, got it .. Practice time .. Oh well, its not like I have a life .. ha ha ha
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Jasper "Thomas of NH" Guitar Playing, learning .. the acoustic guitar. Eastman E8D "the Fox" Taylor 414ce "Baby T" |
#43
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However, this is still over-emphasising the role of the "squeeze"! (as if it's all about increasing the pressure the thumb applies.) And rotating the index tends to put the other fingers at a less practical angle. Yes you do. Your life is your guitar. That's the deal you made with the devil.
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#44
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The devil ? ha ha ha ............ No drugs, no booze, no wild loose women ..
All I have is guitar practice .. And ....................................... its just fine with me. ....... rock on
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Jasper "Thomas of NH" Guitar Playing, learning .. the acoustic guitar. Eastman E8D "the Fox" Taylor 414ce "Baby T" |
#45
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-Jon |