Memorizing

[Mark Stone]

Originally Posted by Don W

How often do you need to play a memorized piece (fingerstyle/classical) that you have learned and recorded in the past in order to keep it up to a performance proficiency. I will play my repertoire about every two weeks and find myself trying to remember certain parts of it. Do you think this is just normal or am I finally loosing it.

If I don't like the song, or it's "meh", I have to play it every two or three days. Music I love to play I never have to practice after the first learn, unless our band director changes the arrangement. All my comments are in context to playing in a band - back when I played solo the songs were always used in the sets, so I played them a lot.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Don W

How often do you need to play a memorized piece (fingerstyle/classical) that you have learned and recorded in the past in order to keep it up to a performance proficiency. I will play my repertoire about every two weeks and find myself trying to remember certain parts of it. Do you think this is just normal or am I finally loosing it.

Download and read The Art of Brainjo to have your question answered by a musical neurologist.

[Highroller]

There's an old quote, goes something like this:

Amateurs practice til they get it right, Professionals practice til they can't get it wrong.

I don't consider a piece really "memorized" until I can play it on auto-pilot. But that said, yeah, I definitely have to keep up with them or they start to fade. I think that's fairly normal.

[mawmow]

Let me share my own thoughts from another point of view.
I am just a leisure times and quite lazy player.
I turned 64 and collected plenty of songbooks since 1980 or so.
I would always play at sight. Never really sang.
I do not remember learning a song except the "The House of Rising Sun" arpeggios : Who didn't.

Three years ago, I decided to take private fingerstyle lessons.
My coach would allow me to choose a piece to work on.
I began with short one page pieces, staff and tabs.
Believe me, I needed daily work for six weeks to learn that single piece.
OK there were some skills to get, but, I hardly remember the notes !
During my second session, I would hardly learn a two pages piece !

I feared I had some memory problem, but no way : I still can remember
the news, be it on tv or e-newspapers, as well as a conversation I once had
some days, weeks or years ago. My memory is still working quite well.
Though former professional data are slowly going, they come back quite
fast when I read some news touching my former work field.

The good news here is as riding the bicycle, good knowledge always remains.

I had discussed the thing with my coach : I concluded I had no real musical
talent, only work, and my mind refuses to learn notes.

[EZYPIKINS]

I like to choose two or three songs to learn at the same time. Preferably in different keys.
Printed lyric sheet, with or without chords. I'll transpose to fit my voice anyway. Work one out so you know what you want to do. Next, work out the other. Then alternate between the two. tweaking slightly as you go. Try multiple keys at first. Once you settle on a key. Concentrate on lyrics. I like to loose the lyric sheet as soon as possible. Usually a week or so. Then I'll tear it up and throw it away. In the past this made it clear if you would be able to recall this song at a moments notice. Keep alternating these two songs every time you pick up your guitar. Gradually add in a familiar tune till I can put the two in a five or six song set.
Currently, thanks to a member here. One of the tunes I'm working on. Is Fire and Rain. Years ago, My band did a version of this song, with a different chord progression, 5 part harmony. It was really good. But I thought I'd learn How it was done originally. Since I am now on a solo path. I was surprised at how much different our version was. The other song I'm doing at the same time is Don't Know Why, by Nora Jones. I like taking a female song and twisting it around for a male voice. It kinda has an ( Extreme ) More Than Words flavor. I find it's easier for me to remember. When I learn a song without being influenced by someone else's interpretation. I try to stay away from youtube instruction videos as much as possible. I like my version to be mine.

[whvick]

What is fun 🥴 is holding your guitar and suddenly remembering a tune from 50 years ago that you had down pat. Now you start to try it and can almost do it after a while, but never quite get it. [emoji19]
Unfortunately I only have a few songs really memorized. I have to play and sing them every few days or start to lose them. Even the ones I wrote.

[Pdubs76]

For me it depends on the difficulty of the song and how long I spent learning it. I find that I remember the tough ones that I had to go over and over many times to get it right. The easy songs that I pick up quickly are the ones that slip my mind. Luckily they are easy to relearn.

[The Bard Rocks]

Interesting how you do it. I don't see how using musical notation will help you with all that. It tells what the notes and chords are, how long they should be held, the rhythm, and some nuances, but not all that! Even a video won't show it all.

For myself, notation works fine. I play a new tune until it stops changing, until I think I have it where I want it, then write it down, play it though, make changes until it sounds the way I want it when reading the notation. Then I scan it into the computer. There are SO many neat tunes and snippets I have forgotten when I have failed to do this. I don't bother with all the fills, bass runs, and embellishments. My mind either seems to remember them or comes up with others that are as good.

[Su_H.]

My complete repertoire, at the moment, is only about 40 minutes long...so I run through the majority of them daily. For the pieces I don't play entirely, I practice the difficult sections of those pieces.

[Su_H.]

Originally Posted by Pdubs76

For me it depends on the difficulty of the song and how long I spent learning it. I find that I remember the tough ones that I had to go over and over many times to get it right. The easy songs that I pick up quickly are the ones that slip my mind. Luckily they are easy to relearn.

This is so true. Many of the easy and intermediate pieces I learned as a music student are gone. After 12 years of not playing, the only piece I remembered is one of my most difficult pieces.

[timschalom]

I've been playing for 1,5 years now and remember only parts of the songs I learned so far.

I think the reason beeing I play with notes nearly all the time.

Now I focus to get the songs I learn also in my head, to be able to perform somewhere when needed.

[ceciltguitar]

I often remember tunes that I learned over 30 years ago better than tunes learned more recently.

There are some researchers who have extensively studied the topic brought up by the OP: how frequently does one need to rehearse a memory in order to maintain that memory. There are some variables, including variation among individuals. What is generally true for everyone though is that the more complex information is, the more it must be rehearsed in order to be memorized. That’s kind of a no-brainer. In general, information must be rehearsed frequently until it is mastered, and then the frequency to maintain the memory can taper off to a certain point.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by ceciltguitar

I often remember tunes that I learned over 30 years ago better than tunes learned more recently.

There are some researchers who have extensively studied the topic brought up by the OP: how frequently does one need to rehearse a memory in order to maintain that memory. There are some variables, including variation among individuals. What is generally true for everyone though is that the more complex information is, the more it must be rehearsed in order to be memorized. That’s kind of a no-brainer. In general, information must be rehearsed frequently until it is mastered, and then the frequency to maintain the memory can taper off to a certain point.

Apparently the research shows that to retain the memory of a piece once learned the music needs to be played just before it is forgotten, how we are supposed to know when a particular tune is due to be consigned to memorial oblivion I have no idea.

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by ceciltguitar

...That’s kind of a no-brainer...

So to speak.

Memory is a funny thing. You hear old-timers complain about having good days and bad days, and I think it happens to everyone, regardless of age.

Back on topic: I have to play things at least once a month to keep them ready-to-go in my memory bag. When that doesn't happen, I'll stumble a bit and they eventually come out. If years go by, I might not be able to play the material that night but it will usually come back to me after a day or two of trying.

[jafranks]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

I always just do a music memo on my phone of me playing and singing a song. That can capture the essence and feel of a tune and if I forget I can go back to that demo and pick up what I'm playing by ear. Then again, I'm not writing complex fingerstyle suites or anything.

Uncle Jesse, what exactly is a "Music Memo" on your phone? Is that an app for the iphone? I am intrigued.