#1
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Song writing and grammar?
If writing a song strictly for fun, is poor grammar acceptable? I mean obvious use of words that aren't real words like gooder? I'm talking about songs along the lines of John Prine and the such.
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https://www.mcmakinmusic.com |
#2
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I don't have a bunch of guitars because they all sound just like me. 1984 Carvin LB-40 bass 1986 Carvin DC-125 two humbucker 1996 Taylor 412 La Patrie Concert 2012 American Standard Telecaster 1981 Carvin DC 100 Harley Benton LP JR DC Bushman Delta Frost & Suzuki harmonicas Artley flute Six-plus decade old vocal apparatus |
#3
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Absolutely ok.
You dont even have to pronounce words right if they work. |
#4
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Since this is basically poetry...
We all get licenses to sort, twist, mix and even mangle the spoken language for artistic effect. Personally I'm a stickler for the King's English, but I let that slide when it's time to sing. Especially since the roots of Roots music grew upwards from the lower classes.
Probably my favorite lyrics come out of sings from The Band. They capture an antiquated style of formal speech that sounds a hundred years old, not just the fifty years, as it now is. Like hearing our great-grandfathers speaking about trading two horses for a mule, they discuss down-home practicalities in lofty language. It's very proper, but not of our times.
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- Tacoma ER22C - Tacoma CiC Chief - Tacoma EK36C (ancient cedar Little Jumbo, '01, #145/150) - Seagull SWS Maritime Mini Jumbo ('16) - Simon & Patrick Pro Folk Rosewood ('01) - Godin Montreal Premiere Supreme - Ibanez Mikro Bass |
#5
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The only thing I know is:
I can't get no satisfaction... |
#6
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I would point to John Steinbeck’s Grapes of Wrath. The language was grammatical incorrect, but the deliberate language choices is what made the characters so real
The same can be said of songs. The language should fit the overall character of the song. I think grammar and all rules of language should go out the window when writing songs. Or at least dangle them out the window
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David Webber Round-Body Furch D32-LM MJ Franks Lagacy OM Rainsong H-WS1000N2T Stonebridge OM33-SR DB Stonebridge D22-SRA Tacoma Papoose Voyage Air VAD-2 1980 Fender Strat A few Partscaster Strats MIC 60s Classic Vib Strat Last edited by Mbroady; 09-23-2019 at 05:13 AM. |
#7
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Quote:
"I went to study Buddah Now I feel much gooder." I.e. a rhythm - or to help a line scan - you can bend words like that, but there has to be that kind of reason (musical, poetic) to justify it. Obviously slang is perfectly OK, as in "I ain't got no...". In fact, normal kinds of colloquialism make for very good lyrics, better than trying to squeeze the Queen's English in. The issue is invented words, that nobody would normally use in conversation. (Would you use "gooder" in speech, except for humorous effect?)
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#8
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"You are nothing but a hound dog,
Crying all the time, You have never caught a rabbit And you aren't a friend of mine." just doesn't make it for me. Some lyrics use incorrect grammar for effect and that is poetic license. Nothing wrong with "It ain't me Babe." Sometimes it just feels like the composer has made a mistake or used the wrong word to make a rhyme work. The song written for the 2010 Canadian Winter Olympics, I Believe, is one of these songs. The bad grammar isn't done to remain in character, but to make a rhyme and it just jumps out at this retired school teacher. I believe in the power that comes From a world brought together as one I believe together we'll fly I believe in the power of you and I. Grammatically, it should be, "I believe in the power of you and me," but "me" doesn't rhyme with "fly". Unfortunately, it just sounds wrong.
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Jim _____________________ -1962 Martin D-21 -1950 Gibson LG1 -1958 Goya M-26 -Various banjos, mandolins, dulcimers, ukuleles, Autoharps, mouth harps. . . |
#9
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"And it ain't no use in a-turnin' on your light, babe
The light I... never knowed An' it ain't no use in turnin' on your light, babe I'm on the dark side of the road." Imagine the red ink an English teacher could use to mark up these lines. Yet, it's the only way to phrase the lyrics properly, not to just make it rhyme, but to convey the kind of emotional state of mind that matches the song's theme. So yeah, leave the grammar book out of your music pen and trust your ears.
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Best regards, Andre Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy. - Paul Azinger "It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so." – Mark Twain http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann |
#10
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Your song, your rules.
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Goodall, Martin, Wingert |
#11
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Where we're going, there are no rules...
~Bob
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Some stuff... |
#12
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In writing and speech, I'm also a stickler for the "Queen's" English, but in songs - esp, as despite my nationality, most of my material is American or American influenced, so yes, colloqualisms and regional usage - and of course humourous usage is absolutely fine.
"you just kinda sorta, stepped on my aorta" and: You drove me, nearly drove me out of my head While you never shed a tear Remember, I remember all that you said Told me love was too plebeian Told me you were through with me an' etc.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#13
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Just make sure you’re choosing the grammatical errors. I always wince a little when I hear the subject and object forms of pronouns used incorrectly - but that’s just me.
For instance, in Keith Urban’s Tonight I Want to Cry, he sings “There’s pictures of you and I on the walls around me.” It would be awkward to sing “me” twice in this line, but I always wish it were written differently somehow. I don’t think anyone ever writes “ain’t” without knowing what they’re doing. Choosing to break the rules is different than making mistakes.
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Mike 2018 Furch D31TSR 2008 Martin OMCRE 1992 Takamine EAN20C 1996 Fender Telecaster w/ Barden Nashville set 1986 Charvel Model 5 2005 Art & Lutherie Ami 1980ish Hohner copy of a 'burst |
#14
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And for everyone's sake, Yoda talk, please avoid!
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Mike My music: https://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com 2020 Taylor 324ceBE 2017 Taylor 114ce-N 2012 Taylor 310ce 2011 Fender CD140SCE Ibanez 12 string a/e 73(?) Epiphone 6830E 6 string 72 Fender Telecaster Epiphone Dot Studio Epiphone LP Jr Chinese Strat clone Kala baritone ukulele Seagull 'Merlin' Washburn Mandolin Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele antique banjolin Squire J bass |
#15
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Ha! But ya got me a thinkin'
A entire song done in Yoda prose might be kind of fun
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |