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Old 02-28-2021, 12:28 PM
SleepyAudi SleepyAudi is offline
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Question Taylor 717e Builder Edition review / Rant

Recently I had owned and then sold a 717e Builders edition. I wanted to start a discussion just to see how others felt about it and to vent a little about the direction Taylor is going. Mostly to see if I was alone or others felt the same way. And maybe someone will find my review useful regarding the 717e.

I started this process of relearning Taylor’s line up. In the Andy Powers era. And wow the marketing stuff is very cringey. Which is sort of the heart of the review. Is the marketing all fluff or is there some poorly presented substance here. As someone who’s very familiar with the backend of these websites, I want to say the website is managed very poorly and lazily. Many guitars are mismatched and improperly labeled or photoshopped together. Not a crime but I noticed. Worse information is out of date. But for me, I don’t buy into marketing, and it makes me cynical if it’s heavy handed.

V Class:
The photo of Andy standing there with a V class brace is rolling my eyes. The idea alone is just sort of insulting. Would ‘yesterday’ have been a bigger song if it was recorded with V class bracing? Just sort of bad marketing idea. Clearly aimed to get everyone with an old Taylor to upgrade to a new one. Reminds me of Apple with ‘retina display’. Well that’s just an in-house name for HD screens. Worse every 2 years it’s ‘Super Retina display’ or ‘Super retina hD display’. Atleast Apple can actually point to better screens. How can you say any bracing is ‘better’ than another, let alone one that has been recorded and sold millions of records? Different? Yes. Better?

Worse, In the maze of Taylor’s website is an out of date 7 series page that describes them as having an ‘improved’ ‘performance bracing’ with ‘tone enhancing glue’. So now their own website tells me I need tone enhancing glue of performance bracing for the ‘best’ tone. But that was outdated and replaced just recently across the whole like by V class. Is this the new sales technique? Run a guitar company like Apple sells phones? What if you want to buy a classic Bob Taylor 714ce? You can’t do it. They don’t sell one. And worse they imply that those are bad and out of date. What? It’s all V class.

So if Taylor wants to get it’s own identity going by doing V class, so be it. I’ll accept it provided next year they sell don’t ‘V class Hifi’ bracing. Or whatever. The used market for whatever reason wants V class guitars and X class guitars are selling slow and at lower prices. Many X braced Taylor’s are available new still. I can’t even review V class vs X class I’m afraid, I don’t have the same guitar with each. I know that the marketing photo of Andy’s notebook with an ocean wave crashing over the top of a V class bracing and some handwritten bs about ‘dividing stiffness’ is quite pretentious and turns me off the brand as a whole. I’m also scientific background so some poetry and wave sketches being thr origin of V class design is just not convincing me. I will say V class seems to work well as any bracing pattern so I’ll move on.

‘Silent Satin’:
So apparently other finishes make squeaks when you play them and we needed a solution. A quick experiment with a nitro finished Gibson and a Martin left me with ‘?’. Ok. Satin in my previous experience with Gibson wears into a gloss in an uneven way. On a $3200 guitar this makes me nervous for the long term visuals as well as the ‘silence’ it offered as a function.
This silent satin is most definately not the satin on other Taylor’s. It’s also very robust and hides smudges and prints better than any other satin I’ve used. So that helps. Is it Silent? Well complex answer. Rub my hand across a Gibson nitro, no sound. Across a Martin? Not really. Rub your hand across silent satin? There is a sound. It’s almost like rubbing a brush across a snare kind of sound, but not as loud. But it was pretty unique to the guitar. So while I owned it I sort of was annoyed.

Now, I have to admit, after selling it and replacing with a GA, I sat there and shifted my seating on the couch and heard a loud squeak. So then I ‘got it’. The satin didn’t ever do that. So there is a functionality To it. If you are recording with a mic there is a chance this guitar may save you a take or a headache becuase it doesn’t do the accidental noise thing. So in the end I will concede that silent is a fair name. Albeit this is very detail focused.

I want to say, that frankly, I find it very ugly. It should be renamed ‘Silent Frosted’ finish to more accurately describe it. Looks like frosted glass on the back of my iPhone 11. It’s supposed to be a vintage feel and look guitar. It feels broken in, which I will get to, but it looks very unique becuase the finish isn’t like anything I’ve seen and the overall rest of the guitar is dialed in well. The finish just looks jarring, especially next to my ‘65 Gibson. It looked like one of those low end Martin road series satin things. I would recommend anyone looking see it in person becuase I havnt seen a picture that tells the story.

Last thing I’ll say is that now that it’s gone? I like it better than when I had it. I’d call it the ultimate ‘function over form’ finish. Perfect for a studio.

Builders Edition Appointments:
Generally this guitar was going for a sort a played in feel. The chamfered edges of the body were excellent. Very comfortable, I miss them. My GA now leaves line where it digs in to my legs and body after a while of playing. The bigger GP didn’t. The rolled fret board is really good, makes it feel like it’s been played for 20 years without having to deal with vintage guitar problems. The bridge is also rounded down to avoid points digging in. Every small detail is considered adn addressed. Granted other companies have done these things for a while, but it’s well executed.

Neck carve: well I hate it. Best I can describe it is Fender 50s soft V on one end into a late 50s C. Some love that, for me? No. I’ll take the classic Taylor neck. That’s preference though. It was a nice fat baseball neck as far as they go.
Grand Pacific:
Well, it’s marketing paragraphs I have to say describe it well. It’s a new Taylor sound and it’s aimed at ‘classic’ tone, and we all know what that is referring to. I don’t really like ‘new’ things or when one company decides to do what another company does. It usually fails and goes away if you look at past attempts by other companies. So broadly speaking, the tone is great and unique. Taylor describes it well and I think is fair. It’s got a Taylor top end; but it has a tucked in upper bass that is well above where you’d find a Martin or Yamaha and would be free from getting muddy. Again, sort of a fantastic studio guitar. I found it didn’t really make a dread good for quiet players it wasn’t a match for me, and tbh, being a quieter player Gibsons offerings are better voiced to sound good where I play. Visually, being honest, I think the shape is ugly. Especially vs Gibson and Martin. Has big bulbous unbalanced thing going on. The old ‘0’ dread body style is much better, and G and M both for the price will be offering something that one could happily use as a display piece for the price let alone sound great. Again, this body to me is function over form. Comfortable for a dread. The tone is perfect for a modern mix. It also delivers the Taylor sound mixed with a vintage sound. It’s also new.

Summary:
It’s a really really reallly good functional tool. Every detail is thought out and considered to produce the perfect recording guitar. I was very conflicted on it and eventually sold it for a GA rosewood and spruce. For me a $3500 priced gutisr needs to look amazing and this was ugly. I think it played so good, and sounded wonderful. BUT I’d rather look at a hummingbird or a D18 if I’m being honest. I also don’t want to find out that the silent satin finish will be a glossy mess in a few years. You may disagree with me on visuals, but an half gloss half Frosted ‘satin’ on the ugly GP wasn’t something I was going to want in a few years. Tone wise, it’s truly perfect for a modern song. But anyone wanting a hummingbird, a Texan, or a Taylor GA isn’t going to find it here. It’s new and inspired by that, but it deserves to be treated as a Grand Pacific and not a Martin copied by Taylor. Were I a recording artist or a studio owner this would be a guitar I had for recording. Simple as. I don’t think you can find a better piece that will work get out of the players way and get out of the production guys way. The flip side of that, it could work as a gigging guitar site, but I’d rather see someone with a gloss as i just think it would stand up to the heavy use of gigs better. As a visual piece of art, I have to say it’s not for me. The honey burst was lovely on the Torrefied spruce. But the satin makes it look very strange and out of place amongst other guitars or in a living room on the wall. Ultimately for me a traditional Taylor ended up there now, but I could just as easily see a Dove or J45 or any Martin filling the roll depending on player preference, as I see this guitar somewhat aimed at those type of players instead of only Taylor players.

And as for Taylor’s marketing, I hate it. But, after living with the guitar that embodies Nu-Taylor and Andy Powers I really think they aren’t BSing anyone. That dude has thought of every detail, so I suppose I have to apologize because I really thought he was full of it. I must concede he’s actually very very good at this and I see why he was chosen. I think I’ll keep an eye out for the right Builders edition of a GA body.

Hopefully this will help a shopper out there and spur some discussion on the direction Taylor so going in. I hate the marketing but in all fairness I couldn’t say they were BS’ing. Perhaps they need a different way to communicate what they are doing though.

Last edited by Kerbie; 02-28-2021 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Edited.
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:04 PM
smic28 smic28 is offline
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Both the Grand Pacific and the new GTs are good examples of Taylor's new direction. And both are really good for their intended purposes. I was sucked into the marketing during COVID and bought a GP, possibly out of boredom. Wonderful guitar in many ways but, for me, lacks something, not sure what. Maybe its a little too purpose driven? Anyway, I get tired of it. Its also feels really heavy compared to my other guitars. Not sure why that should be.

I suppose Taylor is trying hard to reinvent the guitar with V-class bracing, C-class bracing, silent finishes, and different body sizes/shapes. I am sure they want to set themselves apart from the rest. I appreciate the energy they are putting into these new products. Its good for us players. And I'm willing to buy again if they hit upon the right recipe.

I believe Taylor has gone through this kind of transition before. I once had a 1989 Taylor 510, which was a fantastic guitar that improved with age. It was more like a traditional acoustic in terms of tone (e.g. lots of bass). Then at some point they transitioned to a "modern" tone. These are also very nice guitars, but perhaps we will see them fade away to be replaced by Andy's new ideas.
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:10 PM
jklotz jklotz is offline
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I had a 717e and sold it. Interestingly enough, I really liked the neck on it. To me, it was the best neck Taylor ever made. Otherwise, I agree with your assessment for the most part. It was a great guitar for recording. The reason I ended up selling it was it seemed to lack character. Kind of "vanilla". Not necessarily in a bad way, some folks like that I suppose. Just wasn't my cup o tea.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:57 AM
SleepyAudi SleepyAudi is offline
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Yes, I really wanted to like these new guitars, but it was more a mismatch with my playing than anything wrong with them. The GP was too big for my taste and I’m a light touch so I didn’t light it up enough to get the ideal tone. Which is why I decided to try the 811. I actually liked it as well but it’s tone seemed more I’m focused on a Jason Mraz / Ingrid Michaelson some of those popular Ukelele type songs you hear in marketing type gigs. It’s a professional sound, but again not a match.

So for me I opted for the updated 400s, which seems to be what an old 8 was. Rosewood/Sitka all gloss. Very Taylor for a good price. I didn’t want the shiny bling of the 800/900 so it was nearly perfect match.

I’m open to a builders down the road and I hope they find a way to balance innovation with a respect for the heritage the brand has.
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