The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 05-01-2010, 03:01 PM
Herb Hunter's Avatar
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 18,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRuskin View Post
...When Macs change, old programs cease to work properly or at all. ...

...Then there's cost. ...
The last time I looked at the data, Macs were able to run more old programs on current versions of the operating system than PCs and the difference was significant with the old programs that continued to work being much older than what Windows would tolerate. With the exception of the applications that came with the computer, the newest applications running on the MacBook Pro I'm using right now are 7 years old and they are fully functional. Had you said that older versions of ProTools won't run on the current OS, I wouldn't have felt compelled to refute what you posted but you implied that most programs cease to work and that is incorrect.

Macs are only slightly more expensive than PCs when PCs are configured to comparable Mac standards and as far as I'm concerned, they are worth the extra cost.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-01-2010, 03:17 PM
RRuskin RRuskin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 2,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
The last time I looked at the data, Macs were able to run more old programs on current versions of the operating system than PCs and the difference was significant with the old programs that continued to work being much older than what Windows would tolerate. With the exception of the applications that came with the computer, the newest applications running on the MacBook Pro I'm using right now are 7 years old and they are fully functional. Had you said that older versions of ProTools won't run on the current OS, I wouldn't have felt compelled to refute what you posted but you implied that most programs cease to work and that is incorrect.

Macs are only slightly more expensive than PCs when PCs are configured to comparable Mac standards and as far as I'm concerned, they are worth the extra cost.
I based my opinion on what several Mac-based studio owners have told me. Every time they upgraded their Mac, they had ProTools problems. Conversely, when they upgraded ProTools, more money would have to be thrown at the Mac. If this situation has changed of late, it's news to me.

Re: Windows compatibility problems - Since Windows 95, Vista is the only version I'm aware of that crapped on old applications. I didn't buy into that one and was unaffected.
__________________
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-01-2010, 03:35 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRuskin View Post
I based my opinion on what several Mac-based studio owners have told me. Every time they upgraded their Mac, they had ProTools problems.
Your Mac-based studio owners are (or were) fools. One need simply wait until Digidesign (now Avid) verifies compatibility for the particular Mac hardware and OS with the particular ProTools version. Afterwards, one upgrades. Not before. The same process is used of PC rigs. Indeed, the DUC is full of stories of incompatibility with Macs or PCs with ProTools when folks jumped the gun and didn't wait for the developers to work through things.

I've used the same Mac (an 11 year old G4) with 6 different Mac OS versions and roughly 15 different versions of ProTools over the years. They all worked just fine, provided I matched them appropriately, i.e., waited until Digidesign published compatibility specs.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-01-2010, 03:59 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Topanga Canyon, CA
Posts: 2,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRuskin View Post
On the software side: Work done on newer ProTools versions are not playable on older ones.
Sorry man that's just plain wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRuskin View Post
Then there's cost. I know one person who put over $20K into a Mac/ProTools rig that he can't get $250 for today even though it works perfectly.
The assumption here is at 20k it must be an HD system. An HD system's cost is almost entirely hardware based. It has virtually NOTHING to do with Mac vs PC. If that person you know can only get $250.00 out of his Mac based HD system...have him give me a call as those systems (even the old "Mix" systems) are still extremely powerful.

OTOH my first software based system (way back 1999 maybe??) was one of Gateway's first push into the market chasing Dell, or at least that's how I remember it. I'm positive that the Gateway with SCSI hard drives was well into the $2500.00 dollar range. That and Cubase at the time was about $550.00. The REAL kicker was I choose Lexicons first attempt at sound cards as my interface. I'm thinking that too was close to $500.00. $3500.00 in 1999 money was a burdensome investment. That system was utterly and completely obsolete within the year and in truth never did work very well.

If of course the argument is someone purchased an old "Mix System" for 20K and now 15 years later discovers the system has devalued and further did not take advantage of any of Digi's EXTREMELY liberal upgrade paths then the burden must fall squarely on his shoulders. AsI said earlier those are still viable recording solutions that at $250.00 represent the steal of the century. They may not be upgradable but still very decent 48 track recording systems.

If the person of whom you speak dumped 20K into a PT LE system then the numbers are horrendously skewed from the get go.

In the end the market as it sits is fairly square. There are fabulous PC based recording systems that are far better than most have engineering skills. Sonar, Cubase, Nuendo, Cool Edit, Vegas....they're all beyond fabulous. That in fact is well...a fact.

That said I can guarantee you IF a PC based hardware/software solution was available that out performed the HD/Mac based systems of the last ten years I'd of LONG been all over it.

I'm a big supporter of using whatever computer or software works best for the user but the old "PT and Mac based systems are rip-offs" argument is old and ill informed.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:24 PM
BLenmark BLenmark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 437
Default So far, so good

Well, I have loaded the drivers for the POD XT and now can play through the GB software. I am learning to add drum, bass, and rhythm tracks as well. I need to work a little further on editing, etc., but am please with my progress. I am looking for a good firewire or USB interface for vocals, but I have a lot of learning curve to climb before that becomes a priority.

I found a nifty little feature that allows me to play along with my Itunes songs, too.

I think the next step for me will be to spend an afternoon working on a song from soup to nuts. It may sound like a cliche, but it really does seem like the only limits are that of my imagination (and talent).
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-07-2010, 03:39 PM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 12,931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRuskin View Post
From the other side:
I know one person who put over $20K into a Mac/ProTools rig that he can't get $250 for today even though it works perfectly.
Tell you what have that person PM me. I'm certain I can get him $ 250 for it. Heck For that price depending on the config., I might be interested. Kev
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:21 PM
BLenmark BLenmark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 437
Default

After a bit of research and opinion sorting, I have settled on an M Audio Firewire Solo as my interface. I received it yesterday and plugged it in as a test. After downloading the drivers, it seems to meet my expectations: low latency, and clean signal, and nice form factor. Tomorrow i will really put the entire system through its paces. Here is the signal path: Guitar/Vocal mic -> TC Helicon harmonizer -> DTAR Mama Bear (acoustic) or POD XT (electric) -> M Audio Firewire Solo interface -> Macbook Pro/Garage Band -> mini studio monitors.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-23-2010, 10:11 AM
BLenmark BLenmark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 437
Default Success!

After taking a couple of GB tutorials, I was able to lay down a drum track, percussion, bass, and organ to a simple I/IV/V loop, and then a few takes on a supporting rhythm and lead guitar sound. I am very pleased with the quality of the output...just about what I would have hoped for considering what I have in the system $ wise. I am a very tactile learner, so I need to actually do it before the lessons are learned, and that adds to the time needed to learn the software, but I am pretty happy with what I have aid down.

I couple of key learnings:

I think I have an old revision of GarageBand (3.0.5) in that there are some arranging functions that don't seem available to me (assigning/naming regions, etc.)

I am having a tough time in changing the key of the bass lines and the keyboards. Fore example, I can lay down and repeat the 12 bar blues, but can't easily change the key when the song changes to the IV or V chord. I learned to transpose the chords, but this is different than changing it to accommodate a I/IV/V. I am sure there is a simple way yo do it...perhaps I need to study the GB forums more.

The next step for me is arranging and editing. I can see why sound men earn their pay...it took ~4 hours just to lay down 6 tracks of a 36 bar song, and most of that was getting to the point where I could lay down the guitar, I am sure the learning curve is steep, but am wondering, once I flatten it out if I will find GB limiting and should look at Logic.

More as events allow.

Bret
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-23-2010, 12:49 PM
moon moon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Scotland YES!
Posts: 1,983
Default

Take a look at Ardour (http://ardour.org/) a powerful open-source DAW for linux & mac. I wouldn't say it's free exactly but any contributions you choose to make are up to you.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-24-2010, 09:25 AM
7thbassbA 7thbassbA is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 105
Default Just bought a new Imac

I picked up a new imac with Logic express pre loaded. Have been using garage band for a while and wanted to try out Logic to see if it would make difference for me.

I looked at buying a macbook pro and decided that the screen, bigger hard drive, and faster processor had more bang for the buck than the macbook pro. I used a regular macbook before started on the Imac i bought for the kids and found that the much bigger screen and greater connectivity made for a better recording experience.


However, of course, ymmv.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-06-2010, 10:40 PM
BLenmark BLenmark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 437
Default Hey 7th...

...so what was your experience going from GB to Logic? What would you characterize as the upside of Logic over GB? Putting it plainly, is it worth $199? Or would you go another route?

I am going to add another increment of RAM as it seems I need it to play multiple tracks. My hardware seems to bog down with my 1 GB. Also, I am looking at additional loops to be able to add in to GB...any thoughts on where to find good cheap (read "free") GB compatible loops?
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-08-2010, 09:32 PM
7thbassbA 7thbassbA is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 105
Default logic and gb

still working on it. much hight learning curve. Will report back
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-08-2010, 09:44 PM
BLenmark BLenmark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 437
Default Thanks, 7th

BTW, I took the MBP into the apple store and he determined I had a bad battery. They also resolved some potential conflicts with some settings.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-11-2010, 12:39 PM
7thbassbA 7thbassbA is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 105
Default First recording with Logic Express

And with the new-to-me Santa Cruz OM with German Spruce Top, Rode NT-1a into TC Elektronic Konnekt 6 firewire interface.

http://members.soundclick.com/wertz2112

Called Output 1-2.

Once i figured out how to turn on phantom power (in software), got to it.

First Microphone recording, so need to work on mic position.

Once I realized that when I create a track I can make it ready for recording (armed) it all came together easily.

Next step is to figure out how to master/EQ.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 07-19-2010, 09:53 AM
Jack Orion Jack Orion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 774
Default

Macs are cool!

Plus they come with loads of excellent software so you can pretty much record a song, edit a video for it, and post it on the website you designed yourself all without buying any extra software!

I use Logic 9 express to record my stuff at the moment - I had a bit of training in it at college but most of it I've learnt just from messing around...
__________________
For my music:
www.benmorganbrown.co.uk
www.facebook.com/benmorganbrown

New E.P. Nameless Gold available from: www.benmorganbrown.bandcamp.com

Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=