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  #31  
Old 04-04-2020, 04:54 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Originally Posted by mondoslug View Post
Hey, great video...thanks for posting! It's all good & a fantastic sounding mic!
Thank you very much, sir.
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Pre-War Guitars D28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill C28 (UltraTonic), Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill OM18 (Schatten HFN), Martin D18 (1948) (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Martin 017 (1934) (K&K trinity)
mandolin, mandola, mandocello, bouzouki, dobro, weissenborn, lap steel, 5-string banjo
preamps:
EA X6, Grace Felix, ToneDexter, RedEye, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, Pendulum SPS-1
QSC Touchmix 16, K8.2, K12.2
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  #32  
Old 04-04-2020, 04:57 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marty C View Post
Very nice Robert. I too, thank you for strumming. I am actually very impressed with your pickups. I would be happy getting just your pickup sound.

Very niceLy done video.
Hey, thank you ! I did benefit a lot over the years from all those great contributors at AGF. And this is an opportunity to say thanks.
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Pre-War Guitars D28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill C28 (UltraTonic), Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill OM18 (Schatten HFN), Martin D18 (1948) (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Martin 017 (1934) (K&K trinity)
mandolin, mandola, mandocello, bouzouki, dobro, weissenborn, lap steel, 5-string banjo
preamps:
EA X6, Grace Felix, ToneDexter, RedEye, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, Pendulum SPS-1
QSC Touchmix 16, K8.2, K12.2
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  #33  
Old 04-04-2020, 05:04 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
guitarman68, great work man! It takes a lot of time and effort to do this kind of comparison. Also, it's nice to see someone who has most of the popular SBT's in guitars they currently own. I'm a HFN fan myself and can't see me switching anytime soon (probably never), at least to glue in type pickups.
Thank you very much, GuitarLuva ! 12 years ago I started switching from UST and magnetic pickups to SBTs, starting with K&K. I never would know of Schatten or Dazzo or Ultra Tonic if not reading all these fine contributions at AGF. And the Schatten in my OM18 replaced a K&K which sounded to boomy in this lightly built guitar. Still use K&Ks in my mandolin, bouzouki and Weissenborn.
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Pre-War Guitars D28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill C28 (UltraTonic), Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill OM18 (Schatten HFN), Martin D18 (1948) (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Martin 017 (1934) (K&K trinity)
mandolin, mandola, mandocello, bouzouki, dobro, weissenborn, lap steel, 5-string banjo
preamps:
EA X6, Grace Felix, ToneDexter, RedEye, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, Pendulum SPS-1
QSC Touchmix 16, K8.2, K12.2
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  #34  
Old 04-05-2020, 06:18 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Through headphones ToneDexter was a winner over the pickup alone and competitive with the mic across the board.

Through my CP8 set up as a floor monitor the ToneDexter advantage is hard to perceive.

I find myself feeling the same way about my homebrew IR. The one other situation unique to my sound set up, a single speaker high and behind, is that direct shot from the speaker is also a place where I perceive the IR is clearly better, but maybe only for me (but after three sets I think I'm worth it :~).

I think the place where an IR really shines is that vast sea of factory UST equipped guitars. It is clear enough that a non-player will agree. The barriers there are getting ToneDexter into Guitar Center showrooms (maybe with a mic setup so that you can leave with your first Wavemap in the can) and working the price down.
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RainSong CO-PA1100NS, TKL 8975, taped passive HFN
RainSong V-DR1100N2, TKL 8810, no pickup
1 QSC CP8 high/behind, duo gigs no mixer
2xSM58>XLR-Y>CP8, HFN>HXStomp(jf45ir)>TRS>CP8 3.5mm
jonfields45@gmail.com
www.justsoduo.com

jf45ir free custom acoustic guitar IR generator: http://acousticir.free.fr/spip.php?article136
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  #35  
Old 04-05-2020, 11:41 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
Through headphones ToneDexter was a winner over the pickup alone and competitive with the mic across the board.

Through my CP8 set up as a floor monitor the ToneDexter advantage is hard to perceive.

I find myself feeling the same way about my homebrew IR. The one other situation unique to my sound set up, a single speaker high and behind, is that direct shot from the speaker is also a place where I perceive the IR is clearly better, but maybe only for me (but after three sets I think I'm worth it :~).

I think the place where an IR really shines is that vast sea of factory UST equipped guitars. It is clear enough that a non-player will agree. The barriers there are getting ToneDexter into Guitar Center showrooms (maybe with a mic setup so that you can leave with your first Wavemap in the can) and working the price down.
Good points! Yesterday I sat down to finally play with my TD a bit more. I plugged straight into my K10. I used my Larrivee OM guitar with a K&K pickup. Although the tone definitely became more mic like with the TD, I at times missed the fullness of the K&K. I found that I typically liked a lower blend (50-60%) but at that point, I wondered if it even made sense to need the TD? I think the K&K on its own will be too smooth to cut through a mix but I do have fears of the TD being difficult to set up live.

On a side note, I recently purchased the CP8 to use as a monitor. It's quite nice but I can't decide if I am in love with it or not. It lacks a bit of fullness.
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  #36  
Old 04-05-2020, 04:22 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Good points! Yesterday I sat down to finally play with my TD a bit more. I plugged straight into my K10. I used my Larrivee OM guitar with a K&K pickup. Although the tone definitely became more mic like with the TD, I at times missed the fullness of the K&K. I found that I typically liked a lower blend (50-60%) but at that point, I wondered if it even made sense to need the TD? I think the K&K on its own will be too smooth to cut through a mix but I do have fears of the TD being difficult to set up live.
Good point ! Although I did that extensive video and although I really love the TD on some of my instruments (Weissenborn, Dobro, 5-string banjo), I'm still searching for a sonic reason to replace my usual setup on guitars: sometimes dual source with internal mic, sometimes dual source with external mic (being a multi-instrumentalist it depends). Still I miss the fullness of a good sounding pickup combined with the airiness of a good sounding mic in the TD wavemaps I created. But maybe it's just my lack of ability to create decent wavemaps.
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Pre-War Guitars D28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill C28 (UltraTonic), Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill OM18 (Schatten HFN), Martin D18 (1948) (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Martin 017 (1934) (K&K trinity)
mandolin, mandola, mandocello, bouzouki, dobro, weissenborn, lap steel, 5-string banjo
preamps:
EA X6, Grace Felix, ToneDexter, RedEye, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, Pendulum SPS-1
QSC Touchmix 16, K8.2, K12.2
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  #37  
Old 04-05-2020, 05:02 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by guitarman68 View Post
Good point ! Although I did that extensive video and although I really love the TD on some of my instruments (Weissenborn, Dobro, 5-string banjo), I'm still searching for a sonic reason to replace my usual setup on guitars: sometimes dual source with internal mic, sometimes dual source with external mic (being a multi-instrumentalist it depends). Still I miss the fullness of a good sounding pickup combined with the airiness of a good sounding mic in the TD wavemaps I created. But maybe it's just my lack of ability to create decent wavemaps.
One thing I am considering is an Lr Baggs LB6 and Lyric dual source system. I was never a massive fan of the Anthem but I did really like the Lyric, it just lacked low end. The LB6 has always struck me as having a nice warm and full tone so I feel like these two blended would sound really nice. The downside is that the LB6 would be wired to the Lyric endpin so if I ever did a show where I didn't have some type of blending preamp, I would have to rely on just the Lyric.
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  #38  
Old 04-05-2020, 06:42 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Nice videos, thanks Guitarman!

I have been fiddling with Tonedexter since I bought it on the first wave 2 years ago.... I had K&Ks put in 3 guitars to experiment with using that with TD. While I liked what results I had previously with undersaddles and TD, I just couldn't get the K&K how I wanted it with the same settings. I used an EQ box in the effects channel and it improved but then one day, I just turned all the bass of the K&K down. Ah!

So now for K&K, this is the bass and treble setting I use on TD - I always have the character on 9 o'clock as well for K&Ks so I must have bumped the knob taking the photo.... (this setting is great for my Taylor ES2 pickup and really, apart from the character knob, I hardly touch anything.)




BluesKing777.
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  #39  
Old 04-07-2020, 03:19 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Thank you, BluesKing777 ! Wow, that looks interesting and weird. I sure will try !
But I still think the K&K in my vintage 017 simply is not the right match. Running a studio my experience is: If you need EQ like hell there's something wrong with the source. Very often I do not use EQ at all, maybe some HPF.
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Pre-War Guitars D28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill C28 (UltraTonic), Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill OM18 (Schatten HFN), Martin D18 (1948) (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Martin 017 (1934) (K&K trinity)
mandolin, mandola, mandocello, bouzouki, dobro, weissenborn, lap steel, 5-string banjo
preamps:
EA X6, Grace Felix, ToneDexter, RedEye, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, Pendulum SPS-1
QSC Touchmix 16, K8.2, K12.2
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  #40  
Old 04-07-2020, 05:17 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Yes, the Tonedexter tone controls work very well! Not just for a pretty look.

The K&K sounds great with that EQ pictured above on bypass. Tonedexter is a good preamp match for K&K..... 1 MOhm input, I believe. Plus you get tone, gain, vol, DI etc..... TD (on bypass) will smooth out soundhole pickups too.

BluesKing777.
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  #41  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:31 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman68 View Post
If you need EQ like hell there's something wrong with the source.
I mix FOH, and my guitar EQ's quite often look like that.
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  #42  
Old 04-08-2020, 04:56 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
Yes, the Tonedexter tone controls work very well! Not just for a pretty look.

The K&K sounds great with that EQ pictured above on bypass. Tonedexter is a good preamp match for K&K..... 1 MOhm input, I believe. Plus you get tone, gain, vol, DI etc..... TD (on bypass) will smooth out soundhole pickups too.

BluesKing777.
I sure believe that your guitar sounds great with that EQ treatment. In my K&K installations the treble never had to be dialed out. On some guitars it was ok, but in most cases, the K&K had a tendency to sound a bit dull, so I had to boost the treble. Thats why I like the K&K dual sourced (internal mic). The mic adds the treble and airiness the PU lacks. Next best of my K&K experiences is the RedEye, where the treble knob does that job.
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Pre-War Guitars D28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill C28 (UltraTonic), Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill OM18 (Schatten HFN), Martin D18 (1948) (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Martin 017 (1934) (K&K trinity)
mandolin, mandola, mandocello, bouzouki, dobro, weissenborn, lap steel, 5-string banjo
preamps:
EA X6, Grace Felix, ToneDexter, RedEye, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, Pendulum SPS-1
QSC Touchmix 16, K8.2, K12.2
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  #43  
Old 04-08-2020, 04:58 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I mix FOH, and my guitar EQ's quite often look like that.
So would you state this is usual business or would you think "uh, the guitar player should get is stuff right !" ?
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Pre-War Guitars D28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill C28 (UltraTonic), Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Merrill OM18 (Schatten HFN), Martin D18 (1948) (Dazzo/DPA 4061), Martin 017 (1934) (K&K trinity)
mandolin, mandola, mandocello, bouzouki, dobro, weissenborn, lap steel, 5-string banjo
preamps:
EA X6, Grace Felix, ToneDexter, RedEye, Fishman Platinum Pro EQ, Pendulum SPS-1
QSC Touchmix 16, K8.2, K12.2
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  #44  
Old 04-08-2020, 09:46 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I mix FOH, and my guitar EQ's quite often look like that.
This is why I struggle with playing live sometimes. Sound techs often take out a lot of the low end in my guitar to make it cut better. I completely understand these drastic eq settings but it does often make my tone too bright and thin. The TD eq setting above would lead me more to believe that the wavemap is overly bass heavy. Cutting that much bass from the K&K would make it sound thin IMO.
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  #45  
Old 04-08-2020, 10:12 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Sound techs often take out a lot of the low end in my guitar to make it cut better. I completely understand these drastic eq settings but it does often make my tone too bright and thin.
When I mix FOH and cut lows on an acoustic guitar, it's usually to keep it from either feeding back or simply making a mess of the band's low end. Please bear in mind that, as a general rule, mixers are mixing to make the whole thing sound good in the room; it's not about individual this or that. If your guitar needs to be thinner than you'd like for the band as a whole to sound good, then you take one for the team.

On the other hand, if there's a separate monitor system and someone to run it, then you can absolutely address how your instrument sounds to you onstage. But that's high cotton, and pretty rare in small to medium-size venues.
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