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Old 02-16-2021, 11:48 AM
tadol tadol is offline
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Default Help with Zoom L12 -

My band has been using a Mackie mixer, using an iPad interface, for a while, but honestly, the interface is WAY too complicated for me, and basically, you can only get a 2 channel recording out of it. So, for my own project with other friends, I bought a Zoom L12 to put out a Xmas show and also be able to record all separate tracks, and mix them nicely and offer it as a video to family/friends. The audio side of that project actually worked pretty well - great, for a first try - but we had problems with the video recording -

Now, I am trying to set it up for a band project. My thought was to plug everyone into the L12, mics and instruments, and then use the headphone outs, which allow for 5 separate mixes (5 band members), to run out to powered monitors so each person could have their own mix close by (we’re trying to keep as much distance between us as we can), but using ¼” TRS to XLRs to plug in the powered speakers led to major sound problems (lack of), which I was told were due to impedance. So I tried again using ⅛” TRS cables into the ⅛” inputs on the Bose S1s and K10s, like headphones, and that created a howl, also due, I believe, to an impedance problem -

So - less ideal for video, I am gonna try everyone just using headphones, and if those work, look into IEMs, ( and if I hit the lotto, a major set of wireless IEMs ). Just plugging the headphones into the L12 and playing a bit, it all seems to work good. But what I’d like to do, is get some longer ⅛” male to female extensions, strap them to the mic cables and run a mic cable / headphone jack out to each mic stand (4 of them) and then a separate ⅛” line to our drummer. Then, each person can plug in their own headphones, or IEMs, and have their own mix. Although, I know it means someone is gonna have to play on the board to get this all balanced out properly - but if I buy all these extension cables, then strap them to the mic cables, am I gonna create another problem? Is there a limit on length?

Anyone who understands all these impedance issues, and wiring, or just has some suggestions about setting this up - well, you could save me a lot of grief. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get this far, ie, nowhere. The goal is to be able to record everyone playing together, as separate tracks, that can get mixed later. Hopefully, we can use this when we play live (someday) and want to use it both to record ourselves cleanly and also get good sound out in front.

I won’t bore you with how I’m setting up some old security cameras to try and get some video feeds to add - thats a whole other problem -
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Old 02-16-2021, 05:22 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
My band has been using a Mackie mixer, using an iPad interface, for a while, but honestly, the interface is WAY too complicated for me, and basically, you can only get a 2 channel recording out of it. So, for my own project with other friends, I bought a Zoom L12 to put out a Xmas show and also be able to record all separate tracks, and mix them nicely and offer it as a video to family/friends. The audio side of that project actually worked pretty well - great, for a first try - but we had problems with the video recording -

Now, I am trying to set it up for a band project. My thought was to plug everyone into the L12, mics and instruments, and then use the headphone outs, which allow for 5 separate mixes (5 band members), to run out to powered monitors so each person could have their own mix close by (we’re trying to keep as much distance between us as we can), but using ¼” TRS to XLRs to plug in the powered speakers led to major sound problems (lack of), which I was told were due to impedance. So I tried again using ⅛” TRS cables into the ⅛” inputs on the Bose S1s and K10s, like headphones, and that created a howl, also due, I believe, to an impedance problem -

So - less ideal for video, I am gonna try everyone just using headphones, and if those work, look into IEMs, ( and if I hit the lotto, a major set of wireless IEMs ). Just plugging the headphones into the L12 and playing a bit, it all seems to work good. But what I’d like to do, is get some longer ⅛” male to female extensions, strap them to the mic cables and run a mic cable / headphone jack out to each mic stand (4 of them) and then a separate ⅛” line to our drummer. Then, each person can plug in their own headphones, or IEMs, and have their own mix. Although, I know it means someone is gonna have to play on the board to get this all balanced out properly - but if I buy all these extension cables, then strap them to the mic cables, am I gonna create another problem? Is there a limit on length?

Anyone who understands all these impedance issues, and wiring, or just has some suggestions about setting this up - well, you could save me a lot of grief. I spent the better part of a day just trying to get this far, ie, nowhere. The goal is to be able to record everyone playing together, as separate tracks, that can get mixed later. Hopefully, we can use this when we play live (someday) and want to use it both to record ourselves cleanly and also get good sound out in front.

I won’t bore you with how I’m setting up some old security cameras to try and get some video feeds to add - thats a whole other problem -
IMHO the chances of doing all this, getting good performances, good audio, and capturing good video feeds will be low.

Do what a large number of bands do. Use your equipment to get good audio performances and mix to produce a good stereo audio track. THEN set up a room feed for your mix, stage the performances and do a multi-camera shoot of the band "lip-syncing" to the audio. If the players are good they will be able to do a very closely matched performance; close enough that the videos and audio can be matched when editing. The large majority of viewers won't be able to tell, and the rest won't care.

Think about what you want to accomplish. There's a reason why a lot of Youtube videos are done this way.

Sure, lip-syncing is cheating, but doing it the other way is why there are production businesses who do this and the cost matches the difficulty.

Last edited by Rudy4; 02-16-2021 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 02-17-2021, 05:55 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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The impedance issue you refer to is NOT impedance, but level.

All the outputs (Main, Monitor Out A, and Monitor Out A-E) are 100 ohms impedance.

The Main and Monitor Out A outputs put out a healthy signal.

The Monitor Out A-E puts out a smaller signal. It is meant to drive headphones, but is insufficient for your powered monitors.

If you use the Monitor Out A, you should get exactly what you expect.

The only way to use what you have now is to use 5 line amplifiers to bring up the level so that each of the Monitor Out A-E outputs has sufficient signal level.

p.s. 1/4" (phone plug) TRS and XLR are electrically identical.
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Old 02-19-2021, 11:29 AM
tadol tadol is offline
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Thanks for the input - we ended up using headphones, and it worked OK. Not great - the headphones seemed to sound really good with just one or two inputs ( when only one or two voices or instruments played at the same time ) but as soon as we got 4 people singing and 2 guitars and bass all playing simultaneously, the headphones seemed to be overloaded. I’m not sure if thats a problem with the quality of the headphones, the L-12s headphone preamps, or the way I had all the signals adjusted. Gonna experiment more - might try ordering a wired IEM just to see if it works better with this signal -

The good thing was we did get very clean, and isolated, tracks for every person and instrument - except the drums. This first test was done without our drummer ( he just got his second shot, so he’ll be back next rehearsal ) so we used an electronic device that could plug straight into the board. Testing with mics on the drum kit got so much bleed into every mic, this whole experiment may be for naught. But I’m hoping we can talk our drummer into trying an electronic drum pad just to see how it would work, at least for rehearsal / recording -

Next step - fine tuning the mic inputs for best sound, and fine tuning the instrument inputs. I need to learn how compression works, and adjusting EQ and effects for each channel. But in general, I’m extremely happy with how the L12 is working for me so far, and realizing how much of a rabbit hole I’m headed down with equipment and money! This might be worse than GAS!
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