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Old 02-26-2021, 12:35 AM
farantouri farantouri is offline
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Default Recording equipment for one/two vocals + acoustic guitar

Im considering this setup:
  • Evo 8 Audio interface
  • sE 2200a condenser mic (for one or two vocals singing together)
  • Rode NT1 (mainly for acoustic guitar. But may also be used for vocal)
Typically kind of music we play are simon&garfunkel... James Taylor.. Josh Lee Turner etc

Is there better choices out there for that price? is AKG C214 a better choice?

I would also like to be able to record with the mid-side tecknique. As shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJJ...shTurnerGuitar

Last edited by farantouri; 02-26-2021 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 02-26-2021, 08:39 AM
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While I normally think a single pattern, cardioid can be a better value, if you really want to do M/S, one of your mics should be a multi-pattern with a figure-8 option, i.e., if you want to record M/S with only the 2 mics you buy. You also might find that figure-8 pattern works [better] if you plan to have both singers singing into a single mic at the same time, because then you can each be on opposite sides of the mic, and more on than off axis.

Otherwise, I can't fault those mics because I've never used them. (I have an sE Electronics mic and RØDE as well, and think they build good gear.) But, my "go-to" LDC mic in that price range is the Miktek MK300, though. Nice sound on both voice and acoustic guitar, and multi-pattern capability.

I also have the AKG C214. I used it for both guitar and voice until I got the Miktek, and still use it for guitar. Don't get me wrong, I would probably use it for some voices - I just prefer the Miktek for my voice. These days, I think there are a lot more (dozens) choices in that price range, though.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:16 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farantouri View Post
Im considering this setup:
  • Evo 8 Audio interface
  • sE 2200a condenser mic (for one or two vocals singing together)
  • Rode NT1 (mainly for acoustic guitar. But may also be used for vocal)
Typically kind of music we play are simon&garfunkel... James Taylor.. Josh Lee Turner etc

Is there better choices out there for that price? is AKG C214 a better choice?

I would also like to be able to record with the mid-side tecknique. As shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJJ...shTurnerGuitar
Your setup is missing some key pieces. You're going to need a daw in order to make any necessary adjustments to individual tracks and mix them down into a two-track stereo file. You're also going to need headphones so you can hear what you're doing while recording (two sets if you're going to be recording two people at once). And while you can mix on headphones, it's not ideal by any stretch, so a decent set of studio monitors are also necessary.

Also, after you make your first recordings and complain about how boomy things sound, we're going to recommend room treatment. If you're handy, you can probably accomplish some basic room taming for a couple of hundred dollars. If you're not so handy, figure twice that much. Room treatment isn't sexy but it will give you more bang for your buck, so far as sound improvement, than anything else you buy.

As for what's on your list currently, keith.rogers is correct when he says you're going to need a mic that is capable of a Figure-8 pattern if you want to record in mid-side. In that setup, there's some flexibility in the mid mic pattern (it's cardioid the majority of the time but not ALL the time), but the side mic is always Figure-8. If you check our masterlist which is pinned to the top when you enter the Record subforum, you'll find a list of mics that members here are using. That's a good starting place to look up mics to check for what patterns each makes available to the user. I'd suggest sticking to large diaphragm condensers because the interface you've chosen doesn't pump out a lot of gain and ribbons mics, which are figure-8 by default, usually require quite a bit of gain to get a good recording level.
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Old 02-27-2021, 02:03 AM
farantouri farantouri is offline
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Default Thanks!

Thanks for your good answers. This is exactly the info that I need.

Ive never heard about the Miktek MK300 before, but it seems like a really good mic with lots of good review. I think now the MK300 will be my main mic for voice.
Yes, I will need a figure-8 option when recording two singers. Almost forgot about that.

I use Cakewalk by bandlad as my DAW. Yes, I also need headphones and studio monitors. Not yet sure what to buy.

For now I have the Zoom H2. And ye, I struggle a bit about how boomy the sound is. I try to fix with the EQ in my daw, but still not getting it quite right. Ive not tried room treatment.

(btw,sorry about my english)
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Old 03-03-2021, 03:09 AM
farantouri farantouri is offline
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Default Miktek MK300+At2020+Evo8 Audio interface?

Would this be a good choise: Miktek MK300+At2020+Evo8 Audio interface?
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farantouri View Post
T…Yes, I will need a figure-8 option when recording two singers.
Hi farantouri…
I've used a figure 8 pattern for two vocals…actually for two acoustic players who sing and play sitting opposite each other to watch/listen to each other while they played/sang (sitting down).

I've done it with and without the players/singers wearing headphones, and definitely got better recordings when they didn't have headphones. I've also done it with players/singers standing.

One lobe of the figure 8 on mics will often pickup less volume than the other, so it is adjustable via adjusting the distance. Also a figure 8 pattern will reject on the sides if there is noise. The 'nulls' are helpful for rejecting noise and cross talk. It is still mono…

I've also gotten great recordings using an omni directional mic dropped in the middle of groups and adjusting distances for adjusting volumes. This was particularly good with blue-grass groups who were used to working a single mic when playing 'live'. I also messed around with a variant of mid-side with a pair of figure 8 configured mics one facing forward/backward and one sidewise (Im trying to remember if we didn't make the sidewise one just set to cardioid).

This is BONUS material…(best listened to with headphones)
There is a YouTube channel called OneMic - the minimalist recording series…CliCk which used a single stereo mic to accomplish elaborate recordings. I'm not suggesting you do this, just that it shows what a minimal setup can do (and it has great recordings).

Hope this adds to the discussion…

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Last edited by ljguitar; 03-03-2021 at 09:04 AM. Reason: added link
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:05 AM
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keith.rogers keith.rogers is offline
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Originally Posted by farantouri View Post
Would this be a good choise: Miktek MK300+At2020+Evo8 Audio interface?
I'm assuming budget is a constraint so I'll just say that the AT2020 is widely used because of price. I think it's important for large(r) condenser microphones to have a shockmount, which the AT2020 does not have. I'd look at the AT2035 since it has a shockmount, as well as low-cut and pad switches, which can be useful. (I tend to keep the low-cut always on for vocals.)

You'll also want a pop filter for vocals. Besides cutting down plosives, it can help with maintaining a good mic distance so you don't have to wrestle with proximity effect.

There are lots of options in this area, but AT is a proven brand.

On the interface, I always like 4 mic preamps vs. 2, and for the price the Evo is hard to beat, but I'd go crazy trying to control everything with a single knob and buttons. So, while I don't have any personal experience with it, I'd give the Behringer UMC404HD a look if you need 4 inputs because it gets good reviews. There's really nothing else in that $200 and under price range with 4 preamps than those 2, and the Behri has been around a while.

Good luck!
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Last edited by keith.rogers; 03-03-2021 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 03-04-2021, 05:39 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi farantouri…
I've done it with and without the players/singers wearing headphones, and definitely got better recordings when they didn't have headphones. I've also done it with players/singers standing.
Agreed. Headpones are not always helpful.

I record my vocals in a relatively dry space with a Reflection filter. I have the mic on omni as it does give you something extra in terms of 'air'.

Some mic systems are now allowing you to mix in degreee of omni which effectively creates eq and texture changes while you record. MOre pricey but there are some systems that are now inte medium range — those from Lewitt and Austrian Audio.
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:27 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith.rogers View Post
I'm assuming budget is a constraint so I'll just say that the AT2020 is widely used because of price. I think it's important for large(r) condenser microphones to have a shockmount, which the AT2020 does not have. I'd look at the AT2035 since it has a shockmount, as well as low-cut and pad switches, which can be useful. (I tend to keep the low-cut always on for vocals.)

You'll also want a pop filter for vocals. Besides cutting down plosives, it can help with maintaining a good mic distance so you don't have to wrestle with proximity effect.

There are lots of options in this area, but AT is a proven brand.

On the interface, I always like 4 mic preamps vs. 2, and for the price the Evo is hard to beat, but I'd go crazy trying to control everything with a single knob and buttons. So, while I don't have any personal experience with it, I'd give the Behringer UMC404HD a look if you need 4 inputs because it gets good reviews. There's really nothing else in that $200 and under price range with 4 preamps than those 2, and the Behri has been around a while.

Good luck!
If the OP is specifically looking for a "large diaphragm" mic then the AT mics may not satisfy requirements. The AT large bodied side address mics are highly regarded and are an excellent value IMHO, but many of the models have small diaphragm capsules behind the grill.

The AT2020 uses a 5/8" diaphragm and many of the more expensive models use capsules that are less than 1/2", such as the AT4033 and similarly priced models.

I'm not faulting these mics in any way, but consumers often look at the size and side address configuration and assume they are large diaphragm condenser mics.

The AT2035 is a true large diaphragm by definition, being roughly 1".

Anyone confused about the marketing should review the Editor's note posted for the AT 4033 when Sweetwater published their "Best small condensers for recording acoustic guitar":

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/be...oustic-guitar/

Last edited by Rudy4; 03-04-2021 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farantouri View Post
Thanks for your good answers. This is exactly the info that I need.

Ive never heard about the Miktek MK300 before, but it seems like a really good mic with lots of good review. I think now the MK300 will be my main mic for voice.
Yes, I will need a figure-8 option when recording two singers. Almost forgot about that.

I use Cakewalk by bandlad as my DAW. Yes, I also need headphones and studio monitors. Not yet sure what to buy.

For now I have the Zoom H2. And ye, I struggle a bit about how boomy the sound is. I try to fix with the EQ in my daw, but still not getting it quite right. Ive not tried room treatment.

(btw,sorry about my english)
No you don't "need" a figure 8 per. se. to record two singers. While you will get somewhat better isolation with figure 8. But if the singers are at all used to singing together un mic'ed, Duo's and Trios are routinely recorded on LDC Cardioid mics
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