Dizzying prices

[383roller]

A thousand people can claim why it shouldn’t be but it only takes one to show it doesn’t matter.

[BillyMays]

You know, there are other manufacturers out there that make amazing limited production run guitars that are every bit as nice as some of these boutique "custom shop" guitars. Personally, I think my Breedlove is every bit as beautiful and high quality as just about any guitar I have personally played. My buddy Dallas (of Dallas Baker and Friends) has quite the collection of Martin geets and he recently ran out like a madman and bought a Breedlove Sweetgrass the very next day after playing my Tiger's Eye.

I think people tend to get hung up on the name and status more than just the quality available for the money.

There is only one guitar brand that I have seen that stands out above the rest and really makes me long for one even though I could never justify the price, and that is Monteleone. His guitars are more about the art than just the music though. My first time ever seeing one was on display at the Met in NYC.

[MBee]

I wish it was only $13,000. It's $17,658 in Canadian dollars!

[hamburg325]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

I honestly think that both Richard Hoover and Mike Millard have raised their prices to intentionally drive down demand so that the can look towards retirement, but still make a few guitars and make some money without having to work as hard as they used to.

It's probably no fun to compete with Martin and Taylor in the middle segment, and even less fun to compete with Eastman and other Chinese companies in the lower-price segment.

So, Hoover, Millard, Goodall, and others clearly decided to build fewer guitars (thereby reducing supply) while focusing on higher price points (which generate higher profits). Nothing wrong with this except when the prices rise dramatically for guitars that are essentially the same as they were 5, 10, or even 20 years ago. Those Santa Cruz Prewar and Tony Rice guitars, most Goodall models, and even that $13K Froggy M Deluxe are exactly the same instruments that sold for much, much less only a few years back.

Has the cost of materials risen proportionately over that time period? Doubtful. The cost of labor? Also doubtful. Inflation? Um, no.

No, these fine guitars only cost more because enough of us are willing and able to pay more. For items that haven't even changed, much less gotten better. (And here I'm talking about those standard models, not custom builds.)

Interestingly, Collings seems to be thriving without resorting to ridiculously high pricing. Still pricey for sure, but the value perception is so consistently high that the prices don't seem out of line.

[hifivic]

Originally Posted by hamburg325

So, Hoover, Millard, Goodall, and others clearly decided to build fewer guitars (thereby reducing supply) while focusing on higher price points (which generate higher profits)

To my knowledge Hoover is not building fewer guitars, still around 400 a year. Same with Bourgeois.

[ii Cybershot ii]

A Taylor 214ce sunburst is $1500.

Let that sink in a little bit.

[hifivic]

Originally Posted by hamburg325

Interestingly, Collings seems to be thriving without resorting to ridiculously high pricing. Still pricey for sure, but the value perception is so consistently high that the prices don't seem out of line.

That's what I thought also until I spotted a Collings O with cocobolo and a German top for 9K which is what SCGC charges for an OM with the same woods. I own the SCGC however I was able to find a 4 year old in mint condition for $5500. Their upcharge for cocobolo is $1400.00 which to me is absurd.

[Robin, Wales]

And there was me thinking that the American made steel strung acoustic guitar was the folk instrument of the working class!

The Martin 00-17 was listed at $35 in 1931, and still listed at $35 in the 1940 catalogue. That's the equivalent of spending around $650 today. Yet Martin now make a copy of that guitar they list at $5999. Geez, they must have got really inefficient at making guitars to have to charge that much for the same product!

Martin, Gibson, Taylor and Guild are building their lower end guitars overseas. Godin in Canada shows that it is quite possible to keep all your manufacturing in N America and make an all mahogany guitar for that 1931 $35 equivalent.

There's a hole in the market. And someone is going to eventually fill it by building a 00-17 type guitar for $650 in a US factory. And the big names and the boutique houses are going to be caught with their pants down.

And the American made steel strung acoustic guitar will once again be the folk instrument of the working class.

[Rmccamey]

I agree. If Godin can do it, so can others. There is a real hole in the market just waiting for some mfg to build a quality $500 to $1500 solid wood, U.S. made guitar.

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

And there was me thinking that the American made steel strung acoustic guitar was the folk instrument of the working class!

The Martin 00-17 was listed at $35 in 1931, and still listed at $35 in the 1940 catalogue. That's the equivalent of spending around $650 today. Yet Martin now make a copy of that guitar they list at $5999. Geez, they must have got really inefficient at making guitars to have to charge that much for the same product!

Martin, Gibson, Taylor and Guild are building their lower end guitars overseas. Godin in Canada shows that it is quite possible to keep all your manufacturing in N America and make an all mahogany guitar for that 1931 $35 equivalent.

There's a hole in the market. And someone is going to eventually fill it by building a 00-17 type guitar for $650 in a US factory. And the big names and the boutique houses are going to be caught with their pants down.

And the American made steel strung acoustic guitar will once again be the folk instrument of the working class.

[Dbone]

Prices on guitars are becoming obscene. This is more or less my view. To the point where I understand the frustration. I share that frustration and shake my head a bit at times.

Having said this, the prices are completely legitimate if the companies making them can put their product out at those prices and have their customers buy them at a scale that creates and maintains a viable business.

From a pure business perceptive it really is that simple, and what I or anyone else thinks is essentially irrelevant. I or anyone else can whine all we want about prices (and I do whine hehe). It doesn’t matter. The purchases say so.

[ApolloPicks]

What I don't get is that you can get an outstanding vintage guitar for these prices, which will increase in value and sound better. I'd take a 000-21 Martin from, say, 1943, over anything new.. Wait, maybe a 1937 000-18.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

There are some strange things going on in our economy. There's some really bad data at the base of our economy and allot of liquidity. Meaning people are unemployed and businesses are not operating yet there are many people that have allot of money to spend. It's unsettling. There are many people on AGF that have bought numerous guitars that are so expensive they aren't even carried in most guitar stores. I talked with a luthier the other day, with beautiful guitars, that doesn't have any orders and his base priced guitars go for $4,500. Strange times indeed.

There are all kinds of jobs to be had in my back yard. Some are of the “relatively” poor paying retail and food service variety for sure but...
Plumbing and HVAC contractors are begging for help. They are willing to pay for training and in some cases offering a “sign up bonus”. Those jobs pay upwards of $20 /hour to start.
There have been ads for tool and die people and machinists running for
literally a few years now.
My daughter works as a customer service manager for a small factory that produces fasteners. They have raised their starting wages and current employees pay twice in the last six months and can’t get anyone to work.
I hear of this kind of thing all over.
My 19 year old grandson left a $15/hour construction job to drive an ice delivery truck for $25/hour including bonuses. He is currently taking engineering courses in college and working. If you want to work, for the most part, there is work.
I’m pretty tired of the “unemployment mantra.” that seems to be pervasive.
One has to dig a lot deeper than drinking the Kool Aid to see what’s really going on. It’s a lot more complex than it is being painted with a broad brush on the surface for sure.
I have no doubt things are different in other places and that’s my point.
As far as a $13,000 guitar...hey buy ‘em if you got the dough.

[musicman1951]

We are incredibly spoiled as guitar players. You can buy a pretty darn nice instrument for $400 (or less). Student model saxophones are over $1,000. My little Yamaha grand piano now lists for over $20,000. I played a wedding many years ago with a player using a $10,000 violin bow.

This discussion reminds me of my dear father, who got mentally stuck around 1955 when it came to prices.

The logical choice seems to be a search for the cheapest guitar that sounds wonderful to you - that you can still afford. If you think your $600 guitar sounds as good as a $13,000 guitar you're golden, put the rest of your money in your retirement account.

We don't get to tell the builder what a wood upgrade should cost. We can only vote with our wallets. But you have to appreciate that there are people in the world that hear enough of a difference - and love what they hear - to pay the increase.

I tried to tell the car manufacturer the NAV wasn't worth $2,000 but they didn't seem moved by my pleas - and yes, I needed it.

[Scotso]

Higher prices are a reflection of demand vs limited supply. A perfect economic model. For example Caleb Smith sold his dreads for less than $2k in early 2010s. I was told to hop on board because they were awesome guitars and demand would increase as would prices. I did not. Now if I wanna a Smith dread I am waiting forever and paying over $6000. Supply vs Demand. It is as simple and complicated as that.

[budglo]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

There are all kinds of jobs to be had in my back yard. Some are of the “relatively” poor paying retail and food service variety for sure but...
Plumbing and HVAC contractors are begging for help. They are willing to pay for training and in some cases offering a “sign up bonus”. Those jobs pay upwards of $20 /hour to start.
There have been ads for tool and die people and machinists running for
literally a few years now.
My daughter works as a customer service manager for a small factory that produces fasteners. They have raised their starting wages and current employees pay twice in the last six months and can’t get anyone to work.
I hear of this kind of thing all over.
My 19 year old grandson left a $15/hour construction job to drive an ice delivery truck for $25/hour including bonuses. He is currently taking engineering courses in college and working. If you want to work, for the most part, there is work.
I’m pretty tired of the “unemployment mantra.” that seems to be pervasive.
One has to dig a lot deeper than drinking the Kool Aid to see what’s really going on. It’s a lot more complex than it is being painted with a broad brush on the surface for sure.
I have no doubt things are different in other places and that’s my point.
As far as a $13,000 guitar...hey buy ‘em if you got the dough.

I just retired from a career as an hvac Pipefitter and was pulling down about 100k a year with 100 percent paid health insurance and a nice pension. I also have zero student loan debt. I blame the college industry on the unemployment situation . Sucking people in with promises of jobs that don’t really exist or where there are very few decent paying jobs available. When I was working, it was tough trying to find new blood as a lot of the younger generation wasn’t interested in physical labor. That being said 13k is crazy for a new acoustic guitar.