The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-09-2018, 02:30 PM
Revy Revy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 190
Default Fading Out a Loop

One of the things I hate about my loop pedal (RC-3) is that when you stop it, it instantly stops. Yes, I know that's what it's supposed to do! But it doesn't seem natural at the end of a song. As in some songs you want it to fade out. I recently read about the EHX 720, which has an option to fade out, which I would love. "But" I also like to start and stop my loop while playing. So if you were to do that with EHX 720 every time you stop it would fade. That's not what I want either. I was wondering if anyone uses a volume pedal at the end of there signal chain to fade out their loops? About the only way I can think of to make it work with a fade. Then go back and kill your looper while the volume was down. Ideas?
__________________
1995 Collings D2H (Bill)
Larrivee SD-60 12 String (Larry)
2014 American Standard Telecaster (Madame Blue)
2012 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Plus Desert Burst (Rosalia)
1968 Fender Twin Reverb
1993 Mesa Boogie DC-5
Fishman Loudbox Artist

Last edited by Revy; 01-09-2018 at 05:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-09-2018, 03:32 PM
TwinandTwang TwinandTwang is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 275
Default

Volume pedal after the looper?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:03 PM
Revy Revy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 190
Default Volume Pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinandTwang View Post
Volume pedal after the looper?
Yes, at the end of the signal chain before amplification. When you're done playing and your loop is running just roll the volume down and fade it out.
__________________
1995 Collings D2H (Bill)
Larrivee SD-60 12 String (Larry)
2014 American Standard Telecaster (Madame Blue)
2012 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Plus Desert Burst (Rosalia)
1968 Fender Twin Reverb
1993 Mesa Boogie DC-5
Fishman Loudbox Artist
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-09-2018, 06:28 PM
Bob Womack's Avatar
Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
Guitar Gourmet
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Between Clever and Stupid
Posts: 20,433
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revy View Post
Yes, at the end of the signal chain before amplification. When you're done playing and your loop is running just roll the volume down and fade it out.
That would also allow you to set the volume of the loop dynamically. It is my observation that loop rigs are among some of the most personalized rigs out there. There's no reason you couldn't experiment with it.

Bob
__________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:26 PM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 37,082
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revy View Post
…Ideas?
Hi R

Play along with the loop, and begin playing in unison with it, then when the looper stops…DON'T STOP PLAYING.

That will drop the volume naturally…then just continue playing an ending without the looper involved.


__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:38 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: On the Mass/NH border
Posts: 4,915
Default

'Fade out' endings don't work well in live shows. Reminds me of the old American Bandstand tv show where the bands would be lipsynching and as the song faded they'd all be looking at each other wondering what to do. Fade-outs were used on single 'hits' a lot to cut down the length of them, where the band might have continued on for another minute
LJ's idea above is the best one.
__________________
Mike

My music: http://www.reverbnation.com/mikebirchmusic

2017 Taylor 114ce-N
2012 Taylor 310ce
2011 Fender CD140SCE
Ibanez 12 string a/e
73 Epiphone 6830E 6 string (made in 71?)

72 Fender Telecaster
Epiphone Dot Studio
Epiphone LP Jr
Chinese Strat clone ($25!)

Kala baritone ukulele
Seagull 'Merlin'
Washburn Mandolin
Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele
antique banjolin
Squire J bass
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-10-2018, 09:08 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 5,929
Default

Some loopers have a fade-out function, which can be handy. I agree, a full fade is pretty weird live, but you can also combine it with Larry's technique, play in unison with loop, start the fade and keep playing. Fade a bit, then kill the loop. That will make the drop in volume (maybe) a bit less obvious. May not work everywhere, but it's one more trick to have up your sleeve as long as you have a looper that can fade out.

BTW, I do several examples of stopping a loop, while hopefully creating a somewhat natural ending by continuing to play in real time as the loop ends in the article I did for AG on looping recently: (Also, for those interested in ToneDexter, it got some use in this video as well)

http://acousticguitar.com/a-guide-to...w-to-use-them/
__________________
Doug Young
----------------
Music on Pandora
You Tube Channel
website: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com
Fingerstyle Christmas Tunes: A DADGAD Christmas
CDs: Closing Time, Laurel Mill
Pickup tests: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:30 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 37,082
Default

Hi folks…
I enjoy looper conversations…

I rarely fade songs in studio, and even less live. It feels artificial to me when I'm in the audience. It's a radio or recording tool, but it doesn't seem to mesh well with live performance (awkward).

There are a lot of ways to use loopers. I seldom start the loop at the beginning of a song and leave it engaged, or playing back, till the end of a song…

It's more typical that I may capture the loop of a verse right off the bat when accompanying a singer, and I stop the 'recording' as I'm continuing to back them (I use a 2 pedal looper specifically for this capability), and then after the bridge or at another logical point, I use that loop to provide backing guitar while I solo over it.

Then I end the loop and continue accompanying the singer to the end of the song. I want the loop to be pretty invisible.

I have done a lot of experimenting with loops and know (from experience) there is a point that looping is generally more fun for the player than the audience.

One of my main uses for it is if I'm playing in a new venue, I'll drop the looper into the chain right after my preamp, record about 2 minutes of several styles of music, then turn the looper loose while I go out into the room and talk with the sound-tech about volume, tone and mix while we are hearing the actual guitar playing through their system.

It's better than having someone else play my guitar while I go out into the house and listen. I remove it before the show.



__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:15 PM
Revy Revy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 190
Default Loop Fade

Thank you everyone for the great suggestions. Great playing Doug and a fantastic video and article! Very informative!

I'm a single player so I have to be the rhythm, percussion, vocals, etc. I don't do a lot of soloing mainly because my soloing abilities are limited (but I'm working on it!). Singing has been my forte and to add something to my show I play most of my lead or melody breaks on harmonica. So my main use for a looper is timing. What I was trying to accomplish was to stop my guitar playing and gently have the rhythm track fade out, not so much for guitar parts to fade out. But I have songs that I start and stop my percussion tracks during the song. That's where the problem lies. Never seen a looper you could fade and also completely stop. Like when you stop playing a guitar the sustain of the guitar gives it a natural fade. When you stomp a looper there's no sustain ringing out, it's just an abrupt stop. It never sounded natural to me. I'll do some more experimenting and see what I can come up with.

Thank you everyone!
__________________
1995 Collings D2H (Bill)
Larrivee SD-60 12 String (Larry)
2014 American Standard Telecaster (Madame Blue)
2012 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Plus Desert Burst (Rosalia)
1968 Fender Twin Reverb
1993 Mesa Boogie DC-5
Fishman Loudbox Artist
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:34 AM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 5,929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revy View Post
. Never seen a looper you could fade and also completely stop.
Thanks, glad my demo was useful.

The Boomerang III can fade and stop - separate buttons, or just let it fade to zero. I think the Boss RC-300 can as well. Here's an interesting video of the pigtronix showing various ways of stopping:

https://pigtronix.com/infinity/

I believe the pigtronics also supports an expression pedal that can control volume. For that matter, you could just put a volume pedal after any looper and control the fade yourself.
__________________
Doug Young
----------------
Music on Pandora
You Tube Channel
website: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com
Fingerstyle Christmas Tunes: A DADGAD Christmas
CDs: Closing Time, Laurel Mill
Pickup tests: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:21 PM
Revy Revy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 190
Default Fading a Loop

That Infinity is amazing!
I think we'll have to work our way up to something like that.
Thank you for sharing.
__________________
1995 Collings D2H (Bill)
Larrivee SD-60 12 String (Larry)
2014 American Standard Telecaster (Madame Blue)
2012 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Plus Desert Burst (Rosalia)
1968 Fender Twin Reverb
1993 Mesa Boogie DC-5
Fishman Loudbox Artist
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:37 PM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revy View Post
I was wondering if anyone uses a volume pedal at the end of there signal chain to fade out their loops? About the only way I can think of to make it work with a fade.
I use a Ditto X2 and manually fade out with my foot while controlling the live sound by picking dynamics. I've loved doing live fadeouts forever and it was natural for me to start doing it this way when I bought the Ditto back in June.
__________________
Adamas 1581, 1587, 1881, SMT - PRS Cu22, Ibanez JEM-FP, S540, RG550, Fender Stratocaster
Heil PR-35 : Audio Technica AE-6100, ATM5R : Beyer TG-V90r : Sennheiser 441, 609, 845, 906 : ElectroVoice ND767
JBL Eon One, Bose L1 Model II, QSC K12
Friedman DS40, Marshall 6101, 401, RedPlate Phoenix, Splawn Street Rod, Budda SD18
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=