Using 1, vs 2 P.A. speakers for solo gigs? - Page 2

Howard Emerson · #16 03-09-2019, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Sound

Hi all,

I'll be doing some solo acoustic shows soon, acoustic guitar/vocals, and my current PA speakers are 2 extremely large/heavy passive speakers. I've noticed some people on the forum seem to be gigging with 1 speaker for their solo shows. Can 1 speaker cover a pub room? Or is it much preferred to use 2 when wanting to be heard if the audience is around 150 people? The QSC speakers seem very popular. Interested in the CP/K range.

Thanks guys, have a great day!

150 people in a pub, yes? Okay then.....I'm taking it rationally.

Make sure that it's loud enough for you to hear yourself, comfortably, and to be loud enough, to your ears, to rise above the crowd noise.

The reality of that kind of situation is that the majority of the people will be trying to speak loud enough for the friends to hear, and you're just background noise.

If you're set up to enjoy yourself, by yourself, and it turns out that people are all of a sudden paying rapt attention, you'll be loud enough for them to hear if they're listening.

Priorities.

Have a great gig in any case!

Regards,
Howard Emerson

Lost in Sound · #17 03-10-2019, 12:29 AM

Cheers all!

Really appreciate the feedback. Yes, there seems to be a lot of factors in determining the optimal setup, but by the sounds of it, I'm liking the idea of starting with 1 quality 8" speaker and a small mixer, then adding a second speaker when funds allow it. Then potentially leave one speaker in the car for smaller shows as a backup and pull it out for the bigger shows.

For me, it's all about /light weight/portability/ease of setup and pack down. I think this setup is a nice balance of these factors. Enjoying this journey into the solo acoustic covers world. Previously have only been in original rock bands.

I'm using my TC Helicon Play Acoustic with this setup.

Thanks guys, have a fantastic day.

The Kid! · #18 03-10-2019, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6L6

Get a Fishman Performer amp and leave the rest at home.

For a noisy 150 person pub crowd? Right. Hilarious.

The Kid! · #19 03-10-2019, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Sound

Yes, there seems to be a lot of factors in determining the optimal setup, but by the sounds of it, I'm liking the idea of starting with 1 quality 8" speaker and a small mixer, then adding a second speaker when funds allow it. Then potentially leave one speaker in the car for smaller shows as a backup and pull it out for the bigger shows.

Sounds like a good plan. If you're going to try to get by with one 8" speaker for a crowd of 150 people in a noisy bar, you're definitely going to want to get it up on a stand to throw over people's heads preferably towards the furthest part of the room.

Room logistics will come in to play though. I play an odd shaped bar that has low pressed-tin ceilings. What a nightmare. So much chatter in that place. Takes a little more EQ to get a good sound, but it's possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Sound

For me, it's all about /light weight/portability/ease of setup and pack down.
Thanks guys, have a fantastic day.

I think we're all trying to do the same thing. Speakers are getting smaller, lighter, and more powerful. It's a good time to be an acoustic performer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Sound

I'm using my TC Helicon Play Acoustic with this setup.

That's a solid unit.

Although speaker placement is always key, if you're only using one box in that situation, it's REALLY important is you want to be heard out front, and be able to hear yourself. Given the crowd size, I'd recommend two boxes for front of house and one floor monitor. Personally, I'd add a sub as well.

This was my setup earlier this evening. 10,000 square foot brewery. About 200 people at the busiest point in the night. Pics taken after setup about an hour before downbeat.

This brewery gig can get pretty rowdy. It's an appreciative crowd and a great vibe. One of my favorite regular monthly gigs. That's a beautiful looking and horrible sounding pressed tin high ceiling above me. They recently put some sound absorption above, but they could use more. Sounds great in there once I get it dialed in though.

This setup (above) is:

Line 6 L2T over a Yorkville NX720s Powered Sub and a Line 6 L2M as a monitor off to my right side. Mixer is a Soundcraft EFX8 into a Rolls Tiny 2-Way Active Crossover.

Last night (below) was a martini bar that I play once a month. I don't bring a sub to that gig, and I actually keep the speakers on the ground so that I'm not blasting people in the face.

I'm tucked into a side banquet room that isn't in use when I play facing a beautiful chandelier bar. I start out with one speaker pointed at me for a monitor, and once I get the mix right, I point it out front for coverage. It allows me to be quieter and still fill the space with sound.

It's a lower volume gig for the first set, and then I can be louder (within reason) for the second set. That gig is more about people being able to talk without having to battle the music.

Lost in Sound · #20 03-10-2019, 03:33 AM

The Kid! thanks so much for those words of wisdom, you play a nice variety of rooms! Yeah it certainly is a great time for gear, lots of great options out there. I guess everyone can chose their own flavour of gear that appeals to them and still get the job done.

Nymuso · #21 03-10-2019, 04:39 AM

Saw a guy in Sloppy Joe’s using one Fishman SA 330. It is a large, open, live room, only about 1/4 full at mid day. He was competing with room noise of the bar and street noise. But for one guy with a guitar, this system was getting it done. I think the fact that he was elevated on a stage helped somewhat.

steve_mac · #22 03-10-2019, 04:42 AM

Unless the venue has its own PA, I use a single ten inch speaker in bars/patios and find plenty of coverage/volume for crowds of 100 or more.
Of course there are areas that don't get as much volume but that in my opinion is how it should be, not everyone is there to listen to my caterwauling.
A friend of mine plays the same bars and takes 2 twelve inch speakers plus TWO subwoofers, cranks everything up and everyone has to move away from the too loud, harsh sound. No amount of discussion will change his mind that he is driving punters away.

The Kid! · #23 03-10-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_mac

Of course there are areas that don't get as much volume but that in my opinion is how it should be, not everyone is there to listen to my caterwauling.

Haha, nor mine!

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_mac

A friend of mine plays the same bars and takes 2 twelve inch speakers plus TWO subwoofers, cranks everything up and everyone has to move away from the too loud, harsh sound. No amount of discussion will change his mind that he is driving punters away.

Here's where we may disagree.

The reason that he's too loud is him, not the gear. There are a myriad of ways to keep the volume down besides the main R&L faders. Each channel has a fader, EQ, and gain staging.

If he's too harsh, it's probably not the subs. The subs should add fullness and round out the sound. It's not about excessive thump and volume.

Actually, if used correctly a sub can make the performance seem fuller and more pleasing at lower volumes. If anything, I see cats try to push their tops (sans subs) to higher levels to achieve what they should be using a sub to help achieve.

A lot of the time when people are too loud, they're just too loud. They should turn the volume down. However, there are many times when people are too loud in the wrong frequencies.

They could be pumping way too much low end, or pushing the mids to where the mains sound "shouty." Either or both can create ear fatigue, and drive the audience away.

I'd rather have a more powerful system working well within it's limits, than an underpowered system, shouting its lungs out. All things being equal, it's really more about the guy twisting the knobs if these systems are "too loud."

YMMV, of course.

The Kid! · #24 03-10-2019, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Sound

The Kid! thanks so much for those words of wisdom, you play a nice variety of rooms!

Sure thing. I certainly love the places that I play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Sound

Yeah it certainly is a great time for gear, lots of great options out there. I guess everyone can chose their own flavour of gear that appeals to them and still get the job done.

Absolutely. We all have different needs and different expectations of what things should sound like. Find the gear that works for you and go rock! All the best to you in your quest.

steve_mac · #25 03-10-2019, 10:33 AM

No disagreement, I am sure he could get a great sound of the equipment with just a little trial and error. It's more that he is carrying an enormous amount of extra horse power that simply isn't need for those venues.

The Kid! · #26 03-10-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_mac

No disagreement, I am sure he could get a great sound of the equipment with just a little trial and error. It's more that he is carrying an enormous amount of extra horse power that simply isn't need for those venues.

Right on, but I'll respectfully submit that with a noisy pub crowd of 150+, it's better to have it and not need it, that need it and not have it. If he can get by with less, then he's good.

Lost in Sound · #27 03-23-2019, 09:42 PM

Hi all, just reporting back on what I ended up with.

So I got offered a fill in gig the afternoon before the show. The next day I raced into my local store, celebrating their 30th anniversary, which is impressive for around here, to sort out my PA. I went in, set on buying the Yamaha DBR10. The guy that helped me, was praising the JBL Eon speakers, so he powered them up and we A/B'd the Yamaha and JBL's. Just from the brief listen, I preferred the JBL's, so picked up one EON612. I was very tempted to get a second speaker, but it can wait.

Anyways, I had the speaker set up high, beside me, at the gig, and it really delivered. Great bass, nice and clear. It was a very busy night, around 150 people, and it cut through nicely. I had the EQ set flat on the speaker, and I ran my guitar into a TC Play Acoustic, then into a little mackie mixer, then into the JBL.

It's a nice weight at 14kgs. 5 year warranty.

So thanks all for the advice! Nice to not have to worry about that side of it now, and to focus on the music! But yeah, one speaker can certainly get the job done!

steve_mac · #28 03-24-2019, 07:22 AM

Glad you seem to be sorted, but can I ask if you are already going through the Playacoustic what does adding a mixer before the speaker add to your sound?

varmonter · #29 03-24-2019, 08:38 AM

In regards to power as stated above .it is much better
to have too much than not enough.
For both extremes more power gives you
better quality at lower volume levels.
And less harshness at higher levels.
We use both qsc and bose systems.
I find the bose to be a bit harsh when cranked.
The qsc sounds better to me. k10s

Lost in Sound · #30 03-24-2019, 02:19 PM

Hi Steve,

The little mixer setup on a stool beside me gave me a bit more control. I could tweak the bass, treble and volume of the guitar or vocals very easily, and the ipad for in between set music was plugged into this as well, with it's own seperate volume knob, so it's super convenient.

I was really happy with the setup and the pack down was 10 minutes from when I finished playing to driving out of the venue! I had to then race to drum for a duo gig, it was an epic day! 5.30-2am playing.

Varmonter, yes definately agree with having a little more power than needed.