Fairly interesting article on Compressors

[Brent Hahn]

That's more of a herding dog than a heard-ing dog.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

That's more of a herding dog than a heard-ing dog.

True but he does know a good lick

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Maybe that's your personal rule, and that's ok, but it's also fine for engineers to solo a track and make adjustments. A common example is if there's masking going on in the upper-bass and low-mids. That's a congested area and it can be hard to identify the contribution each track is making. Soloing in a situation like that is very important. You, of course, flip back and reference the mix frequently. It's ESPECIALLY important for fatigued ears. It would be wonderful if we could hear small adjustments clearly in a dense mix but let's not kid ourselves.

What I would not advise is soloing each track every time one needs to make adjustments. You want to do the majority of your work with the mix active. But, I wouldn't recommend forcing one's self to follow a rule based on theory. Plenty of accomplished pros I know solo tracks to apply compression, EQ, etc, if it helps them better hear what changes are being made.

It's not theory...it's practical advice from people who do it for a living (like me). Don't make adjustments in solo, you have no idea how they translate within the context of a mix. The hard reality is, you'll make it sound "pretty" in solo & that will likely not be what works in the context of a mix. Even in your example of frequency masking, if you aren't listening in the context of the full mix you have no way of knowing if it's helping.

I mean, you're free to do whatever you want, but that doesn't make it right.

[b1j]

Nudging back to the start of this tread (on compressors and their use), I'm finding I don't think I want to use a compressor at all.

My song is four well mic'd acoustic guitars plus DI bass. I labored on the dynamics with every phrase using gain envelopes. To my fledgling ear, everything now sounds volume-balanced. Nothing pokes out or needs to be compressed. To my ears.

I then carved out EQ bands to make room for one another: mostly mildly additive (3 or 4 dB), but I also took down some musty low-mid rumble in the D-18 and wide-Q mids in the bass. That was an improvement; it let in the air. So far, I have to say I like it. It flows nicely to my ears.

With the rumble and inference gone, I tried a little mild compression, hoping for a sound quality boost of some sort, but I just didn't care for how it pinched the open tones of the individual notes. The timbres of the guitars themselves were preferable. Plus, I like the dynamic range of the parts. So I may just leave compression out of this one.

I sent some 1-second reverb from all tracks to a single Reverb send in a large room, which is how I imagined the piece, and it's time to walk away from it, because it seems pretty good as is. We'll see tomorrow.

All of this is a bit premature because I have a dozen measures of bass still to track and a handful of tiny acoustic punch-ins. So that's why I'm not sharing it just yet. I won't try to track the acoustic punch-ins until I can set up again in the studio with the panels.

It may be crap, but it's what I can do today.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by b1j

Nudging back to the start of this tread (on compressors and their use), I'm finding I don't think I want to use a compressor at all.

My song is four well mic'd acoustic guitars plus DI bass. I labored on the dynamics with every phrase using gain envelopes. To my fledgling ear, everything now sounds volume-balanced. Nothing pokes out or needs to be compressed. To my ears.

I then carved out EQ bands to make room for one another: mostly mildly additive (3 or 4 dB), but I also took down some musty low-mid rumble in the D-18 and wide-Q mids in the bass. That was an improvement; it let in the air. So far, I have to say I like it. It flows nicely to my ears.

With the rumble and inference gone, I tried a little mild compression, hoping for a sound quality boost of some sort, but I just didn't care for how it pinched the open tones of the individual notes. The timbres of the guitars themselves were preferable. Plus, I like the dynamic range of the parts. So I may just leave compression out of this one.

I sent some 1-second reverb from all tracks to a single Reverb send in a large room, which is how I imagined the piece, and it's time to walk away from it, because it seems pretty good as is. We'll see tomorrow.

All of this is a bit premature because I have a dozen measures of bass still to track and a handful of tiny acoustic punch-ins. So that's why I'm not sharing it just yet. I won't try to track the acoustic punch-ins until I can set up again in the studio with the panels.

It may be crap, but it's what I can do today.

You have volume automation at your fingertips. It’s certainly a more time-consuming method but a better leveler in virtually every way I can think of sans using a compressor merely as a tone driver. I guess guitar players (especially tele players) could make a case of compressor "all the time" but that's a whole other can of worms.

I'm just not a big fan of compression and the whole "it's the glue that holds things together" has never been particularly true for my mixes, at least ones I have some time to work with.

Clip gain automation in Pro Tools, Volume automation in Studio One and I'm good to go!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

It's not theory...it's practical advice from people who do it for a living (like me). Don't make adjustments in solo, you have no idea how they translate within the context of a mix. The hard reality is, you'll make it sound "pretty" in solo & that will likely not be what works in the context of a mix. Even in your example of frequency masking, if you aren't listening in the context of the full mix you have no way of knowing if it's helping.

I mean, you're free to do whatever you want, but that doesn't make it right.

Steve while I completely agree you have to listen to whatever adjustment one makes within the entire mix.
But I see no reason to not solo to hear some subtle anomaly and then immediately audition the adjustment in full mix context.... Especially for those of us who do not have decades of professional critical listening experience ... and are not on a time constraint .... Many of us less experienced at listening (me included ) often can hear only a faint suggestion of something slightly off ---but are not able to determine what it is exactly or how to try to fix it , until soloed. juss sayin'

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Especially for those of us who do not have decades of professional critical listening experience ... Many of us less experienced at listening (me included ) often can hear only a faint suggestion of something slightly off ---but are not able to determine what it is exactly or how to try to fix it , until soloed.

I agree with this, as an amateur. I don't use these tools day-in, day-out, so especially if I'm using a new plugin, or one I haven't used in a while, or even just not quite sure what I'm hearing, I'll tend to pop into solo sometimes, exaggerate the processing so I can really hear what's going on, then back it off and go back to the full mix to hear how it all sits together and make final adjustments. I think if I were more experienced with the tools it would be easier to do without having to isolate as often.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

You have volume automation at your fingertips. It’s certainly a more time-consuming method but a better leveler in virtually every way I can think of sans using a compressor merely as a tone driver. I guess guitar players (especially tele players) could make a case of compressor "all the time" but that's a whole other can of worms.

I'm just not a big fan of compression and the whole "it's the glue that holds things together" has never been particularly true for my mixes, at least ones I have some time to work with.

Clip gain automation in Pro Tools, Volume automation in Studio One and I'm good to go!

Going through an entire track, and an entire piece, using gain envelopes (the Studio One term for them) is indeed time consuming — absurdly so, from a professional’s perspective. But that’s not my perspective. I’m like my neighbor across the street who gets down on the ground each spring and summer to pluck out each tiny weed with her fingers. The overall result is pristine, but the process is painstaking.

In the back of my mind, I was thinking, I will just take care of the volume balancing this way and see what compression can do later for tone adjustment. The first compression I tried was the standard four-control plug-in: threshold, ratio, attack, and release. It did nothing useful for tone shaping. Maybe one of the traditional emulators (LA-2A, 1176) will have a different effect. Before I give up entirely on compression, I’ll probably try one or both of them.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

It's not theory...it's practical advice from people who do it for a living (like me). Don't make adjustments in solo, you have no idea how they translate within the context of a mix. The hard reality is, you'll make it sound "pretty" in solo & that will likely not be what works in the context of a mix. Even in your example of frequency masking, if you aren't listening in the context of the full mix you have no way of knowing if it's helping.

I mean, you're free to do whatever you want, but that doesn't make it right.

Except, you are when you are frequently referencing the mix. There are advantages to do both, that's why most engineers do both. Certainly trying to tell you how to work. My message was for people new to mixing who might think it's some industry rule, as it's definitely not. I've actually not worked with anyone who doesn't let themselves solo when it helps.

[Bowie]

Regarding the fader, it's been industry standard for a while now that you have quite a bit of fader automation on the critical tracks. However, I'd encourage home recordists not to get too caught up in it. Definitely put it into practice but if you're spending hours manipulating every consonant for a track very few people will hear, it's probably not the best time management. There will come a time when it's appropriate. Until then, don't let advanced editing features rob you of your time to make music.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Steve while I completely agree you have to listen to whatever adjustment one makes within the entire mix.
But I see no reason to not solo to hear some subtle anomaly and then immediately audition the adjustment in full mix context.... Especially for those of us who do not have decades of professional critical listening experience ... and are not on a time constraint .... Many of us less experienced at listening (me included ) often can hear only a faint suggestion of something slightly off ---but are not able to determine what it is exactly or how to try to fix it , until soloed. juss sayin'

Your intuition is correct. But, it's not just about having experience or not. Most pro engineers work the way you do and solo when they feel they need to. Sometimes, you may even want to work in "clusters" where you just put up the tracks that occupy the same frequency space and work on those so that the clutter of the mix isn't interfering with your ability to hear the area of focus. That's a way of referencing critical relationships in the mix while also getting the benefits of soloing. I recommending giving that a try if you haven't.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by b1j

Going through an entire track, and an entire piece, using gain envelopes (the Studio One term for them) is indeed time consuming — absurdly so, from a professional’s perspective. But that’s not my perspective. I’m like my neighbor across the street who gets down on the ground each spring and summer to pluck out each tiny weed with her fingers. The overall result is pristine, but the process is painstaking.

In the back of my mind, I was thinking, I will just take care of the volume balancing this way and see what compression can do later for tone adjustment. The first compression I tried was the standard four-control plug-in: threshold, ratio, attack, and release. It did nothing useful for tone shaping. Maybe one of the traditional emulators (LA-2A, 1176) will have a different effect. Before I give up entirely on compression, I’ll probably try one or both of them.

I think you may well be surprised concerning time consumption. I can do a track in maybe 5-10 minutes max unless, of course, I play really poorly. There seems to be a groundswell here, poo-pooing volume automation, which wholly and completely seems bizarre and misguided, at least to me. It's a quick, easy, fundamental tool of any DAW, and I'd argue the one that has the quickest and most notable sonic rewards. It certainly does not have to be micro-managed to be highly effective, and it provides a pathway to much higher capabilities of which I couldn't do my job without. But if you're okay with the sonics of a compressor, it is, without a doubt, easier to level. For me, and as I mentioned, I just really, really don't like what most compression provides by way of sonics. It's an effect once heard on a track, it can't be unheard.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Steve while I completely agree you have to listen to whatever adjustment one makes within the entire mix.
But I see no reason to not solo to hear some subtle anomaly and then immediately audition the adjustment in full mix context.... Especially for those of us who do not have decades of professional critical listening experience ... and are not on a time constraint .... Many of us less experienced at listening (me included ) often can hear only a faint suggestion of something slightly off ---but are not able to determine what it is exactly or how to try to fix it , until soloed. juss sayin'

I get that, but if you never push yourself to hear the adjustments in context, you'll never get there. Sure solo to hear it clearly...but then get out of solo to make your adjustment. Rinse & repeat.

I guess the understood that experience brings is: you never learn to ride without the training wheels if you never take the training wheels off. No one is good at this stuff to begin with. It's a learned/practiced skill. And the more you resist the practice the longer it remains elusive.

I'm giving the same advice I give to any noob assistant who starts with me. The struggle is worth it in the end.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Your intuition is correct. But, it's not just about having experience or not. Most pro engineers work the way you do and solo when they feel they need to. Sometimes, you may even want to work in "clusters" where you just put up the tracks that occupy the same frequency space and work on those so that the clutter of the mix isn't interfering with your ability to hear the area of focus. That's a way of referencing critical relationships in the mix while also getting the benefits of soloing. I recommending giving that a try if you haven't.

I don't know any pro engineer who condones working in solo & I know a couple who literally never solo. Their position is if they can't hear it in the mix then it's not worth worrying about. Solo if for hunting down something that you can't pin down otherwise, like a click or buzz. Triage stuff, but not actual mixing. And I would never work on a group of instruments without everything else, it's the same thing as working in solo. You have no idea if it works with the rest of the mix. I'm sorry, but that's just bad advice.

Again. you're free to do what you want...but if you want to get better (and not waste so much time), avoid working in solo or in small groups. you're just making more work as you then have to adjust your adjustments to work in the full mix. Once you get good at working a mix, you can nail a pretty good static mix really quickly.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I don't know any pro engineer who condones working in solo & I know a couple who literally never solo. Their position is if they can't hear it in the mix then it's not worth worrying about. Solo if for hunting down something that you can't pin down otherwise, like a click or buzz. Triage stuff, but not actual mixing. And I would never work on a group of instruments without everything else, it's the same thing as working in solo. You have no idea if it works with the rest of the mix. I'm sorry, but that's just bad advice.

Again. you're free to do what you want...but if you want to get better (and not waste so much time), avoid working in solo or in small groups. you're just making more work as you then have to adjust your adjustments to work in the full mix. Once you get good at working a mix, you can nail a pretty good static mix really quickly.

Yeah, I never solo during a mix-down. Never. That for all the reasons above and a handful more when I'm in work mode. As mentioned, I need to know how homogenized the mix is as it stands, even if it's only two or three tracks. Serendipitously two tracks can, in fact, clash (show warts) when soloed but work wonderfully in the bed. On the other hand, I'll certainly take the time to comb through things at the editing stage, which, if lucky, gives me time to address things that have obviously gone wrong (pops, clicks, overs, etc.).

As mentioned everyone is different as to how they reach where they wish to be sonically in a mix but as advice to less seasoned folks I'm thinking not so good.