Pre-Amp/EQ/DI vs. DI and Separate EQ... Thoughts?

[JWJ915]

I have been playing live music for a few years and I am starting to put together a pedalboard. I have a Seagull Mini-Jumbo with a Q1 pickup and an Allen and Heath ZED board. I have been fairly pleased with the EQ'ing I can do with my board, but am looking for something with more control as I search for the "perfect" sound to my ears.

I currently use a Radial J48 DI box but have been reading reviews about the Radial Tonebone PZ-PRE, and it sounds like a stellar unit. I have also read reviews about the Carl Martin Parametric EQ pedal, and it seems to be a pedal that performs very well with acoustic instruments as well. I am torn on which pedal to try... Do I stick with the Radial DI box and get the Carl Martin EQ pedal, or do I try the PZ-PRE with the built-in EQ section and DI feature?

Is the Carl Martin EQ going to give me more control, and overall better sound than the built-in EQ on the PZ-PRE? Or is the EQ on the PZ-PRE more than adequate? Does anyone have any experience with either of these pedals? Any thoughts would be appreciated, and I am totally open to suggestions of other pedals that may work just as well.

Thanks in advance for your input!

[kaos]

I would stick with what you have. But to satisfy your curiosity, why don't you get the pz-pre from a store with a good return policy so you can try it out with the rest of your gear.

I just don't like the idea of going through two preamps.

Bob.

[JWJ915]

Thanks for the reply, Bob. So you think that it may not be the best idea to combine a pre-amp in my pedal board with the pre-amp in the A&H board?

[kaos]

Originally Posted by JWJ915

Thanks for the reply, Bob. So you think that it may not be the best idea to combine a pre-amp in my pedal board with the pre-amp in the A&H board?

The preamp in your guitar. And I am not saying it won't work ... but you gotta be careful setting levels to avoid harshness / distortion.

The DI box you are using now is passive (no pre-amp).

Bob.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by JWJ915

Thanks for the reply, Bob. So you think that it may not be the best idea to combine a pre-amp in my pedal board with the pre-amp in the A&H board?

The PZ-Pre is a great unit, but I'm not sure it would add all that much to your present set up. Its DI section is pretty much the same as the J48, so that's a wash, and its EQ isn't all that different from the EQ already available to you on the ZED. Here are the exceptions:

1) in addition to the shelving high and low EQ, the semi-parametric mid, and the HPF you have on your ZED, the PZ-pre also adds an adjustable HPF, giving you the option of setting the filter at 80 or 200 Hz (your ZED's HPF is set at 100 Hz and the one on the J48 is set at 80 Hz). This is mostly useful in a full band mix, where you need to cut the low end of the guitar so it stays out of the way of the bass and other low frequency sounds. You also get a notch filter for feedback problems or for a little more surgical tweaking in the lower frequencies.

2) the PZ-Pre gives you a second channel if you ever want to use another guitar and switch between them, or if you want to mix two signals at the preamp and send only one line to the board.

3) the PZ-pre has a boost and an FX loop. The former is useful for solos in a band setting, and the latter could give you a way of organizing other pedals if you start experimenting with more in the way of effects than you have on your ZED (if your ZED is one with effects). Being able to switch a chain of pedals on or off, and or to do so while also applying a boost, can be very useful.

4) the PZ adds a pre effects/EQ/boost DI out, in case you want to send an unaffected signal to your board (for mixing perhaps with the post-FX/Boost/EQ's signal) or to a house PA.

5) the PZ adds a mute switch. Good for breaks, for unplugging/plugging, and for tuning (it also has a tuner output if you plan to use a pedal tuner). If your ZED is one of the smaller ones without channel mutes, this could be handy, although it will do nothing for your vocal channel.

Other than these things, you have the rest of the PZ-Pre functions in the J48--so it's a matter of whether or not you need or want these other things. FWIW, I've been using a PZ-pre for a while now, and it's a very good piece of equipment, if you need the specific things it does. It does them well.

The Carl Martin Parametric EQ, or another one, like the Empress, etc., would give you much more in the way of EQ control than you now have. It is worth asking yourself, however, if you really need all that adjustability.

You could, of course, sell the J48, buy the PZ-Pre and a parametric EQ, and put that EQ in your PZ-Pre effects loop along with whatever other pedals you plan to use. But again, do you need all that?

Louis

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by kaos

The preamp in your guitar. And I am not saying it won't work ... but you gotta be careful setting levels to avoid harshness / distortion.

The DI box you are using now is passive (no pre-amp).

Bob.

The J48 is active, although it's true that it doesn't function as a preamp.

Louis

[JWJ915]

Ischwart, thanks for your response. You raise a lot of great points. Maybe I am too immersed in finding that "perfect" sound. I have also considered the Aphex Acoustic Xciter, although I know it is not a DI or pre-amp. And the J48 is definitely active, not passive.

[JWJ915]

Originally Posted by kaos

The preamp in your guitar. And I am not saying it won't work ... but you gotta be careful setting levels to avoid harshness / distortion.

The DI box you are using now is passive (no pre-amp).

Bob.

The Q1 pre-amp on my guitar seems to be very "weak," so that is the reason I've considered another pre-amp. But I don't know much about live sound, so I really appreciate your feedback.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by lschwart

The J48 is active, although it's true that it doesn't function as a preamp.

Louis

Thanks for the correction. You are right.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by JWJ915

The Q1 pre-amp on my guitar seems to be very "weak," so that is the reason I've considered another pre-amp. But I don't know much about live sound, so I really appreciate your feedback.

Since I was corrected that the J48 is active, I noticed that there is a pad switch on the box. If the pad is ON ... that will cut your signal significantly.

Have you tried going direct to the ZED board? (Assuming it has instrument IN)

[kaos]

Here is a good info video on your box. Seems like a nice DI!

[kurth83]

For me, perfect EQ requires both parametric and graphic working together, and a notch filter is useful too. Real parametric has Q, freq, and cut/boost.

The empress para eq has Q, the others the OP mentions do not, which makes it a cut above other para EQ.

If you want to go cheap, the Zoom pedals are great, and can do all sorts of EQ.

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by kaos

The preamp in your guitar. And I am not saying it won't work ... but you gotta be careful setting levels to avoid harshness / distortion.

The DI box you are using now is passive (no pre-amp).

Bob.

The J48 is active

[kaos]

Originally Posted by pieterh

The J48 is active

Yes thank you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[guitaniac]

FWIW, my Zoom A3 has been very useful with difficult EQ problems. I can use the virtual two band parametric EQ and the virtual six band graphic EQ in series, or I can put two virtual parametric EQs in series. The A3's parametric EQ isn't infinitely adjustable, but there are enough frequency options and enough 'Q' options to do a pretty decent EQ job.

The A3 also has a basic manual three band EQ for "quick and dirty"
adjustments at the gig.

And yes, the A3 has most of the typical preamp/DI features, with the expection of phase inversion for the output signal. (You can invert the phase of the mic channel signal, if that's needed for a better blend with the pickup signal.) There's also a second input which can be used for a mic or second pickup, and a variety of effects which I haven't had much use for up to this point. (The modeling feature hasn't been helpful with my particular pickups.)