AER Compact 60 vs. Bose L1 Compact (and some general AER Compact 60 Questions)

[open-road-matt]

Hi Folks,
I currently travel with a Bose L1 Compact and a Bose L1 Model 2. I mostly use the Model 2 but there are a few venues where I use the Compact. I have a couple of gripes about the Compact but overall, it works fairly well for me.

Gripes: When I have the Compact behind me, it gets to be a bit much on my ears when I'm pushing any kind of volume. (I understand that I could position it differently but I place it behind me so I can hear what the audience hears, use it as mains/monitor, etc.)

The lack of a Master Volume on the Compact is a bit of a pain. And lastly, although it puts out a lot of sound in a compact package, it's a bit bulky to haul around as a backup/use-occasionally system.

I've always wanted an AER Compact 60. Here is what I'm wondering:

Has anyone compared the AER Compact 60 directly to the Bose L1 Compact? I know they are different creatures but I'm wondering if the coverage and disbursement from the AER could be enough to fill in for the L1 Compact in the 2 or 3 venues where I use the L1 Compact. I would of course test this out at home but I'd love to hear from anyone who has compared these two directly.

As a side benefit, I'm also wondering about using the Compact 60 as a mixer for my L1 Model 2. If I love the tone of the AER as much as I think I will, I could take a line out of the AER to the Bose L1 Model 2. I could mute the AER loudspeaker with the headphone jack if necessary or....

There are some venues where I have a hard time hearing myself from the L1 Model 2. If the ambient noise in the room gets loud enough, it kind of swallows up the sound (at least from my perspective as the performer standing in front of the L1.) I'm wondering if I'm using the AER as a mixer, could I position the amp in a way that I could use it as a wedge monitor in those situations and hear myself well despite the noise in the room? It might be a bit weird to have the Bose sound behind me going out to the room and the AER coming back at me. Again, it would be interesting to test this out.

It would also be nice to use the Compact 60 with a house system. I do wish that the AER had separate outs for each channel. I would worry about irritating a sound person by giving them a mix of guitar and vocals vs. separate control over each. Do any of you go guitar and vocals into an amp and then take the DI Mix out to a house system? Does that cause trouble with sound engineers?

Any thoughts you are willing to share would be wonderful.

Thanks!
Matt

[jonfields45]

Not quite on topic...but one of the reasons I like using a single powered speaker high and behind, as main and monitor, is when we need to play very loud, I put the speaker up higher and the volume where we are standing is still reasonable. Jon

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Not quite on topic...but one of the reasons I like using a single powered speaker high and behind, as main and monitor, is when we need to play very loud, I put the speaker up higher and the volume where we are standing is still reasonable. Jon

Hi Jon,
I appreciate the input. I think one of my challenges with some of these systems is my height. I'm 6' 4" so with something like the L1 Compact, that puts my ear right in line with the little line array that sits on top of the system. I had the same trouble with the Fishman SSA. If I crouched down just a little bit and got my ear on a bit lower level, I was fine but I don't like to sit when I play and crouching down for a show not only looks odd but it's tough on the legs!

So I'm not sure I could get a powered speaker up high enough!

Matt

[jseth]

Hi Matt;

While I do not have much experience with the Compact Bose, I do have an L1 Model I Classic and an AER Compact 60... absolutely love them both!

I posted an extensive "review" of my first gig with the Compact 60 (search: first gig with Compact 60) so I won't go as in depth with this reply...

The AER is an EXCELLENT little amplifier! It will get REALLY LOUD if you want it to; I have the Anthem SL in my guitars, and I have the gain set 3/4 of the way on channel 1, while the vocal mic gain (Beta 58A) is slightly lower... given those settings, I have not yet had my Compact 60 up even halfway in volume, not even for a very big room (20'x80 feet with 18' ceilings!). So, don't think that just because it's small with one 8" speaker and 60 watts that you will be hampered in the volume department!

Next: The AER has a similar characteristic to the Bose system, in that the sound really spreads and disperses well, once it's turned up to performing levels. At quieter volume, the sound is directional; you can tell all the noise is coming from "that little box"... but once it's turned way up, the sound stops coming from that little box and seems to come from everywhere, at least that's how it sounds to the player.

Like any amplification, the further away from you, the less that any interaction with your guitars and mics will be problematic.... Raising or lowering the AER affects the overall tone from the unit...the nearer to the ground, the more bass-y, while elevation tightens up the bass and helps overall tonal balance. I play sitting down, and I like the AER to be somewhere between stomach level and neck level. One thing to note about the AER is that EVERY room is going to want different eq'ing; you aren't going to have a "set it and forget it" experience with the Compact 60. I will say that, thus far, it has been very easy to dial in a sound I like in whatever room I have played in...

I don't think that using the AER as a "mixer" is all that good an idea. For one thing, the eq settings are somewhat limited' those limitations don't present big problems when using the unit as the source sound, but may present difficulties when using just a line out to a bigger system. And it's hardly a cost-effective solution; if you WANT a little mixer, then one of those tiny 3 channel Mackie mixers for $100 seems the way to go.

I have used the AER in conjunction with a bigger PA (not my Bose). I was doing a set at a local tavern/bar where they had a big, more standard PA system, and I had already had the experience of the sound guy not being quite "with it", so I ran my guitar AND vocal through the AER, then took the DI out through a snake to the board and the house system, just told the sound man NOT to have much of anything coming through the monitor in front of me. The AER was on a chair in the corner of the room/ stage area, and I was sitting about 15'~ from it while I played.

The result was DELIGHTFUL! I could hear myself and my voice perfectly, the guitar sound had enough room to "get out" of the amp and I had zero feedback issues from it... and the sound guy had an easy go of it, too, as he just had to do a final 'tweak" to the signal through the house system. Wonderful results from that application!

I would suggest that you make the adjustment (with both the Compact and the L1) of having the main tower behind you BUT slightly off to the side, as opposed to directly behind you. Makes all the difference in the world to me, as far as feedback issues go, and I can still hear exactly what the audience is hearing. Should you acquire a Compact 60, the same caveat would apply, even more so, as the AER needs to cover the room as well as your own ears! Overall, I think the AER "needs/wants" more room/distance from the performer (at higher volume levels) than the Bose systems do.

Took me a while (and I'm still adjusting!) to remember that the Bose systems are unlike conventional PA's... silly, right? I'm talking about the dispersion field of the Bose now; realize that you get 180 degrees of solid dispersion from them, so they DON'T need to be pointing straight at the audience or at you (if you want to hear it) to be effective. That marvelous aspect of the Bose systems can be utilized to great advantage when you are setting up and positioning the thing...

I can not endorse the AER Compact 60 more highly... 12#s!!!!! How easy is that to lug around? Very solid construction; absolutely silent operation, even at higher volumes; and the tone of thing just "sounds like money", to use the words of a highly experienced and successful bassist/sideman friend... they do have some limitations, but, for what they are, they are absolutely golden...

Hope this helps a bit! Good luck, glad you're getting gigs!

play on.....................................>

John Seth Sherman

[dcopper]

Hey Matt,
Good to see you posting! I have an AER Compact 60/3 and had the BOSE L1B1 for a long time. I have also tried out the BOSE Compact. The AER is a stellar amp. I can't say enough good things about it and it will fill the same space your BOSE Compact will do. Many players use the AER for a stage amp/monitor and send the signal out to the house/ another PA, etc. I would not hesitate to do that with your larger BOSE. In fact, I always thought the BOSE sounded better with an external mixer than the BOSE mixer.

I recently bought a Fishman Loudbox Artist and compared to the AER it holds its own. Doing an A/B I can tell you that the Compact 6o/3 sounds more natural and just simply cleaner BUT I would not take anything away from the LB Artist. I think it is an outstanding amp and excellent buy for the money. I bought the AER because I felt it was time to really step up to what I believed was the best small compact amp on the market. I have no regrets. It really is excellent and you will be amazed how LOUD and FULL it is for a small amp. It can easily fill a medium sized venue all on its own.

No offense to any BOSE Compact players/owners but to my ears it always sounded a bit digital and lifeless. You will not find the AER to have that kind of tone. It is sweet and natural and sounds as good as what you put into it. I would also recommend you do an A/B with the LB Artist though. You could have 2 for the price of the AER. I say that but also say that the AER is worth it!

I have a QSC K8 to supplement the AER anytime I need extra fill for a room. So far, playing small to medium venues - no need.
Stay well and happy hunting,
davidc

[Teleplucker]

A local wine bar I play at has two of the bose speakers, L1 I think. The owner really likes them so that's what I use when I play there. I have an AER Domino that I use essentially as a mixer and monitor at that gig. It works great, the domino has more outputs than the 60 I believe. I can use line out LandR to feed the two bose speakers, or I can take use a TRS to XLR cable and use one channel of the mixer that they have.
They do not have the tonematch setup.
Personally I much prefer my HK audio setup to the bose speakers.
More to your question, the AER will fill the room by itself but there is an advantage to having speakers that are above folks heads to get better dispersion, IMO.

[varmonter]

The aer is a great compromise to lugging a big pa.I did find its eq a bit deficient
Though so I loop a parametric eq through the effects loop.the aer's DI
out is pre-master volume so you can actually send a DI out to the board without any
Thing coming out of the aer's speaker.

[open-road-matt]

Thanks for all the wonderful info! It sounds like it's certainly worth trying out the AER and seeing how it stacks up against the Bose Compact and perhaps how it integrates with the L1 Model 2.

I'll keep a lookout for some holiday specials from places with good trial periods (though the amp sounds like a keeper!)

Thanks!
Matt

[open-road-matt]

An update: I am trying out a AER Compact 60/3. It showed up late Monday night after the kids were asleep so yesterday was my first chance to try it out. It is an incredible little amp! The tone and clarity is wonderful and I can't believe how much sound comes out of such a small box!

I tried several different combinations of guitars and mics and my favorite thus far is a Gibson J45 w/Baggs Element and a Neumann KMS105 for vocals. That alone is a big deal! I had moved pretty much completely back to nylon because I felt like my vocals were being "swallowed up" by steel string guitars through the Bose gear. Not so with the AER!

Anyway, I played around a lot with the amp yesterday. For those of you gigging with these (or other amps) where do you put it at a show?

I tried the mic stand mount. That puts the amp right about head level of someone sitting at a table! Probably not the best! My favorite position so far is on the floor with the front propped up about 4". I was getting nice coverage in the room but I'm not sure how this would work in a noisy place, a bigger room, outdoors, etc.

I have a 45 day trial period with this amp. I only have one actual gig in that period (I don't tour/gig much in the winter) so I won't really get to put it to the test. And I sure can't try it outside! (Duluth, MN!)

If I keep the amp, I'd like to sell my L1 Compact so I need to try to find ways to compare the two here at home and make a decision before the trial period ends!

Oh, I also took the DI out of the AER into my Bose Model 2 and it sounds fabulous!

Thanks again for all the help!
Matt

[jseth]

Matt;

Nice to hear that you are doing a serious "trial" with the Compact 60...

As for placement? I have put mine on the floor, up on a stack of cases on the side of a stage (about 5' high and 12' from where I was sitting)... both times were exactly what was needed for that space. I believe that Eric Skye (he uses the smaller AER Alpha) has put his directly underneath the chair in which he was sitting!

Eric was the one who told me that I would need to tweak the AER for each application where I used it... easy enough to do, especially if you have a trusted set of ears in the audience for some verbal feedback...

I have not tried my AER through my Bose L1 system; good to know that it sounds good that way!

Have fun with it... truly a tremendous little amplifier. I don't think you will have any problem selling your Bose Compact, either.

[open-road-matt]

Hi jseth!
Thanks for your help again! When you say you had it 12' to the side of where you were sitting, was the amp behind you at all or directly to the side? How well could you hear yourself?

My ears have become more sensitive as time passes. I need to change my setup so I am no longer standing in front of my sound source like I have been doing with my Bose systems. My ears just can't take it anymore!

So I'm trying to picture different set ups where the amp is in a reasonable spot for me to hear what I need, without being too hard on my ears while providing good coverage of the space without being too loud for anyone listening. Maybe that's asking too much!

Also, how close was the amp to the audience? Using the mic stand mount puts the amp about 4' or so off the ground but like I said, I'd worry about it being at ear level for someone sitting too close.

Lots to ponder!

Thanks again,
Matt

[dcopper]

Matt,
I played an outside patio bar at the beach and just plopped it behind me on a regular outside table. I played sitting if front of and to the left of the amp. No problems with feedback and the sound was excellent. I had rigged up a mic stand boom to work inside of a regular speaker stand using the screw mount they include. I did not like the sound as much when the AER is on a speaker stand and mic stands are pretty flimsy for the amp.

I have one of those folding amp stands and that works better than most other situations. I put it behind and to my left or right depending on the space and sit in front of it with my body in front of my mic. I like the sound with it lower either on the amp stand or on the floor, AER makes this little floor wedge of foam that is made for the AER but probably just another toy for us gearheads to desire.

For the best bass response, probably the floor works best but you do need to angle it a bit to get the sound directed upwards. There is a post somewhere that someone rigged up a little mini-stand that screws into the mic stand mount on the bottom of the amp and angles the amp up about 30 degrees or so.

I now has a SoloAmp, Roland AC90, Fishman Loudbox Artist and an AER 60/3.
The best sounding amp is the AER- hands down. I have to say though, I really like the LB Artist too. It is an excellent amp for half the cost. The AER is the truest sounding acoustic amp with really little muss or fuss. I have not had the need to vary my eq that much, just bringing up the bass and treble for lower volume playing.

One other tip is when you do a sound check - back as far away from the amp as you can. When you are directly in front of the amp it can sound a little "boxy" but it does not sound that way at all when you get away from it. It has an excellent dispersion pattern.
Best regards and congrats,
davidc

[open-road-matt]

Thanks David!
I appreciate the help! I did order one of the little wedges from AER! I think I mentioned that my favorite spot so far sonically is on the floor with the front propped up so I think the little wedge will be a great way to do this.

I'm glad to hear that the dispersion changes as you get further away from the amp. I have it set up in a room here at home that isn't all that big and you are right, in close proximity to the amp, it does sound a bit boxy. It sounds like I just have to have some faith that the boxiness goes away as you move further out in the venue.

I suppose it depends on volume, room, etc but at what distance from the amp would you say this boxiness disappears?

Thanks again!
Matt

[dcopper]

I think the sound begins to spreadout after about 6-8 feet from the amp. As you go away from the amp, the sound dispersion is very good - even to the point where it is hard to locate the source of this BIG sound.

Let me know how the wedge works out. As I said, I did all this modifying of a speaker stand but really prefer the amp just on a little amp stand that also angles the amp up a bit. I think it helps.

The best of all worlds would be to have it on a solid surface up in the air higher. Speaker stands just don't seem to work as well at lower to moderate volumes, although the amp still sounded really good. For coffee houses, etc., the floor wedge would seem perfect. For noisy bars i am not so sure.

davidc

[open-road-matt]

I may have found a good solution! I have used a Da-Lite Project-O-Stand for years as a portable table:

http://www.da-lite.com/products/mult.../projectostand

I put my harmonicas, mixer, clock, water, etc. on it. There is one venue that has a raised stage with about a 1.5 foot wall at the bottom. I couldn't put the L1 Compact on the ground there so I put it on the table and that worked pretty well.

I just tried putting the AER at the front of this table and stood next to it. I can hear myself pretty well without it being harsh on my ears and I have room behind the amp for my harmonicas, etc.

This might be, as you mentioned, a solid surface that is up in the air a bit. I could also see using the wedge on the table if I need more/different dispersion.

Matt