Red-Eye Preamp or K&K XLR? Need some advice!

[jonfields45]

My preference would be an old school Boss GE7.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

This EQ for an open mic topic keeps cropping up, enough so I'm going to put in my .02 worth.

I have heard so many people at open mics, with on board Eq especially, destroy their sound from the stage. If you use monitors, you really have no idea what you sound like out front, and you don't get a soundcheck to get both the monitors and the mains dialed in, so what's the point?

Thank you. I run sound on the side, and I'll never understand how people think that they can mix from the stage. The monitor mix is not the same as the main mix, and so many of these cats don't even know what they're doing or what sounds good, but they want to control their sound.

I usually ask them if they want it to sound good to everybody out front, or only to them on stage. Most see the point after that, but some people come in with a bunch of outboard stuff that they don't even know how to use and do their best to mess up the FOH mix.

Cats will come up and tell me how great it sounds, then proceed to throw a monkey wrench in things when it's their turn. I just smile and let them sound terrible if they insist on being a control freak. I'm not paid enough to argue.

[Methos1979]

If you sound great at the FOH but you sound awful in the monitors, your soundman sucks.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

If you sound great at the FOH but you sound awful in the monitors, your soundman sucks.

Weird flex, but ok.

I mean, we're still talking open mic's here, right? If so, you're lucky to have a monitor, let alone a sound person.

You see, that's where communication comes in. If you're constantly twisting knobs on stage, you're working against the person who is trying to do their job. You know, the person that's trying to make you sound good.

Just ask for what you need in your monitor, right?

Usual scenario:
Hey, can I get more guitar in the monitor?
Ok, now more vocals.
Ok, a bit more guitar, and a little more vocals, and maybe some reverb. Ok, more reverb please... ok, a little more. Ok, can you turn the monitor up a little?
More of ME please!

All the while, This cat is singing nowhere near the mic, and the gain before feedback threshold is being exceeded and the excessive reverb is causing problems by burying them in their own monitor mix, ...but the sound person sucks.

This times 20 at an acoustic open mic where the sound person has to do this over and over again ad nauseam all evening. It's certainly a lot of fun and very rewarding for "Jeff from suburbs" to come play some classic rock tunes and leave before the other performers play before so he can bounce to another open mic down the street.

[varmonter]

I have the pure xlr and use it souly for open
mikes and if im just casually sitting in with
other bands. The redeye gets lots of love here.
So it should be good as well. kk pure xlr is obviously
designed for kk pickups.it cam run on 48v phantom power.
and has mudrange adjustment . the redey
i beleive only adjusts high end. not sure if it runs
on phantom im sure someone will chime in.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

I mean, we're still talking open mic's here, right? If so, you're lucky to have a monitor, let alone a sound person.

Extremely good point, here. I go to exactly ONE open mic that has a full on PA/sound system with a dedicated sound guy. Actually, several sound guys. Sometimes the sound guy is great and can dial me in. But most often they can't or won't. It's all about the strummers.

The vast majority of the open mics are small systems that are behind me (tower/array) or in front with no monitors. And they almost always suck in FOH tone because of the way I play. But if I bring my own mixer or preamp with my tone already dialed in it's better.

I've gone to exactly one small open mic where the guy dialed me in perfectly and quickly with no problem and that's because he, too, is a fingerstyle player with an old Froggy and a self-admitted tone-snob that takes extreme pride getting good tone for everyone.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Extremely good point, here. I go to exactly ONE open mic that has a full on PA/sound system with a dedicated sound guy. Actually, several sound guys. Sometimes the sound guy is great and can dial me in. But most often they can't or won't. It's all about the strummers.

The vast majority of the open mics are small systems that are behind me (tower/array) or in front with no monitors. And they almost always suck in FOH tone because of the way I play. But if I bring my own mixer or preamp with my tone already dialed in it's better.

I've gone to exactly one small open mic where the guy dialed me in perfectly and quickly with no problem and that's because he, too, is a fingerstyle player with an old Froggy and a self-admitted tone-snob that takes extreme pride getting good tone for everyone.

All sound people should take pride in what they do and always strive to do their very best. I’m not sure exactly how one would show up with their tone already dialed in. The room is everything.

Dialing in somewhere else isn’t going to do anything other than give you an arbitrary starting point which may or may not work for where you’re going.

[Mr. Jelly]

One thing about running sound and managing people. Everybody thinks they can do it well. Though few can. And fewer do.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

All sound people should take pride in what they do and always strive to do their very best. I’m not sure exactly how one would show up with their tone already dialed in. The room is everything.

Dialing in somewhere else isn’t going to do anything other than give you an arbitrary starting point which may or may not work for where you’re going.

I agree. However, open mics are rarely run by dedicated sound people but rather guitar players who really only know how to get a good tone for THEIR guitars/playing style. And since probably 90% of open mic guitar players/hosts are pick strummers they have no idea how to dial in tone for fingerstyle players.

Strumming a guitar with a pick is loud and very bright so the tone is dialed in to reduce the volume and darken the overall tone. When a fingerstyle player gets up there the volume is very low and the tone is so dark that it sounds like mud.

Increasing the volume/gain only serves to amplify the predominantly low-end mud and leads to feedback issues. The EQ needs to be tweaked to cut the lows and boost the gains with the mids being the wildcard depending on the guitar/room.

Having my digital mixer or preamp EQ set to increase the gain and brighten the tone makes for a good starting point that makes my basic tone right out of the gate more similar to the tone of a pick strummer. From that starting point the open mic host can generally then (and only then) dial in a decent tone.

I'm basically doing for him what he could or should be able to do at his controls if he had any experience dialing in fingerstyle players. From that point he can then make the usual minor tweaks for the room as can I as I have my EQ right in front of me.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

From that starting point the open mic host can generally then (and only then) dial in a decent tone.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Best post of the day, so far!

Oh wait, it says open mic host, not sound guy. They’re not always qualified.

[gfirob]

Seems a lot to ask of one box to handle all situations. I use a Tonedexter, but I don't think that would solve the OP's issue entirely because nothing would. There are just too many variables in the rooms and various different PA's.

I only have one venue that I regularly play in that has a full-time soundman and he is very good and they have good monitors. But most of the time it is hit and miss depending on the place.

I use the looper in the TCH Play Acoustic to go out and listen to the sound before I play if there is time for a sound check, but a real soundman is way better IMHO.