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  #46  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:10 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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So it's like a resonator? Where are the top braces?
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  #47  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:40 AM
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So it's like a resonator? Where are the top braces?
Well, I'm not so sure it is Neil. A resophonic guitar makes its own unique sound by conducting string vibrations through the bridge to one or more spun metal cones (resonators), instead of to the guitar's top. There is a mechanical connection between the string, bridge and cones on a resophonic guitar whereas on my reecho design there are no mechanical connections between the strings, bridge and top to the reehco disc. I am relying on two things to set my reecho into motion:

1) The air coupling between the top and back which in turn transfers vibration through the center post to the bottom of the disc and

2" The air vibrating inside of the sound box transfers energy onto the top side of the reecho disc.

I braced the reecho disc using carbon fiber "tow". Since I wanted to use brace material that was as light as possible CF tow strands seemed like a good choice for the application. I suspected the disc would be subject to a lot of flexure movement so I wanted to stave off any surprise failures, that would quite likely be challenging to repair.
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  #48  
Old 02-20-2020, 09:12 AM
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Thanks for the explanation Tim. This is very interesting stuff. I will be following along and hope to get an opportunity to audition the pilot guitar. Maybe at McJam?
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  #49  
Old 02-20-2020, 10:48 AM
Nemoman Nemoman is offline
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Wow--very interesting concept.

As the new owner of an offset soundhole guitar, I can attest to the tonal advantages that a larger vibrating top can posses. Did you use a radial bracing pattern on the top?

I look forward to hearing the final outcome of this exciting project!
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  #50  
Old 02-20-2020, 12:07 PM
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Tim, you are getting weird on us. You know that, right?

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  #51  
Old 02-20-2020, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for the explanation Tim. This is very interesting stuff. I will be following along and hope to get an opportunity to audition the pilot guitar. Maybe at McJam?
My goal is to have it done and exhibit it at the Artisan Guitar Show. You should be able to test drive it there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemoman View Post
Wow--very interesting concept.

As the new owner of an offset soundhole guitar, I can attest to the tonal advantages that a larger vibrating top can posses. Did you use a radial bracing pattern on the top?

I look forward to hearing the final outcome of this exciting project!
Hi Nemo, yes, I did use my own radial bracing on this guitar similar to what I’ve used in the past on other offset sound hole builds we’ve done.

BTW, I don’t know if you use a thumb pick but I’ve had comments from players that do use them that they have to be very conscientious of their picking technique or they will tap the top. This is never a problem on tops with standard sound hole placement.




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Tim, you are getting weird on us. You know that, right?

I know Fred but hey, somebody’s got to do it.
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  #52  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:28 PM
Nemoman Nemoman is offline
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BTW, I don’t know if you use a thumb pick but I’ve had comments from players that do use them that they have to be very conscientious of their picking technique or they will tap the top. This is never a problem on tops with standard sound hole placement.
Tim--My Wilborn Arum (the guitar I have with the offset soundhole/port) has an elevated fingerboard for exactly that reason!
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  #53  
Old 02-21-2020, 07:41 AM
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Tim--My Wilborn Arum (the guitar I have with the offset soundhole/port) has an elevated fingerboard for exactly that reason!
Good morning Nemo,
That makes perfect sense to me. It doesn't surprise me that Ben thought that one through. I checked in on that thread from time to time and your guitar turned out to be a spectacular looking instrument!
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  #54  
Old 02-22-2020, 08:13 AM
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Someone asked me if my Reecho is similar to the Gibson Virzi which is mounted inside his 1924 Gibson L-4? The Virzi Tone Producer was designed and implemented by Loyd Loar back in the 1920's and was used in violins, mandolins and guitars and I think mandocellos as well. However, it's use was discontinued after Loar left the company.











I guess that Loar and I shared slightly similar goals, of improving the tone of our instruments but our methods of getting there diverge. He mounted the Virzi to the top, beneath the bridge. It was attached by three mounting feet and the other end of the mounts span the entire width of the Virzi plate. I would think that this mounting and attachment method might stifle or restrict the movement and vibration of the plate, but that is only a hunch.

My Reecho is mounted by a single post, in the center of the disc. This provides the greatest degree of freedom for the disc to vibrate as its mounted to one node and not to three as the Virzi uses.

My goal was to re-animate a dead and lifeless back and make it an active contributor to the total sound of the guitar.
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  #55  
Old 02-23-2020, 02:25 PM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McKnight View Post
Someone asked me if my Reecho is similar to the Gibson Virzi which is mounted inside his 1924 Gibson L-4? The Virzi Tone Producer was designed and implemented by Loyd Loar back in the 1920's and was used in violins, mandolins and guitars and I think mandocellos as well. However, it's use was discontinued after Loar left the company.
Thanks for answering my question. As soon as I saw the picture of your Reecho disc, it reminded me of the Virzi Tone Producer in my L-4.

Now I have to wonder what it would sound like if you used a metal disc instead of a wooden one? How much would it sound like a resonator guitar?
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  #56  
Old 02-23-2020, 05:21 PM
jmat jmat is offline
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I look forward to playing this at Artisan!
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  #57  
Old 02-23-2020, 06:44 PM
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Cool Tim. Steve and I have talked a lot about tone producers like Verzi used. We’ve thought about getting around to trying one. Can’t wait to hear your finished product.

Just a couple weeks ago, a customer brought in an arch top that was super reverb-y. It was unlike anything I had heard out of an arch top. (Maybe Steve remembers the builder). Anyway, I was convinced it had something similar. It sounded really cool. I could see it perking up ears with people looking for something extra. Thanks for sharing this.
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  #58  
Old 02-23-2020, 08:08 PM
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Hi Ryan,
Thanks for following along. I have two similar guitars in finish now. One with the reecho and one without. I stick foam sponges in the sound-hole then top that with a plastic butter dish lid which keeps the finish overspray out of the inside of the guitars. When I tap on these two guitars they sound quite different. The sponges effectively connect the top and back and adds a significant damping effect to both top and back plates. When I tap on, either the top or back of the “normal” guitar it goes thud, as expected. When I tap on either the top or back of the guitar, with the reecho disc, it actually has sustain inside the guitar. It’s really weird... but it makes me smile because I am onto something exciting and new, at least for me. I have no clue what will happen after it’s stung up though so I am remaining optimistic.
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  #59  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:03 PM
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Here is a pre-finish peek at the back. Please ignore the half blind, goofy looking, walrus curmudgeon in the background.

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  #60  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:21 PM
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Smile Cool thread...

Very interesting thread and a super idea. I hope it bears exactly the sonic fruit you are aiming for.

That back is quite beautiful (and you do not look odd to me!)

Curmudgeon perhaps but so am I. Haha


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