some recommendations for starting bottleneck

[Starter]

Hi,

I write this with all the humility of someone who now can play maybe 5 songs total using a bottleneck. For me, though, that's a huge leap forward, after a few years of frustration. Some of this is probably common sense (now that I think about it) but some of it is due to Tom Feldmann and Steve Chipman

1. The main breakthrough was a DVD by Tom Feldmann, “Bottleneck Slide Guitar for Beginners.” He starts with lots of basics (which finger, types of slide, string gauge) and some basic moves (going up and down string 1, strings 1 and 2, all 6 strings). But these then get quickly incorporated into actual traditional blues songs: Jitterbug Swing, I wished I was in Heaven, Guitar Rag (open D), I’m going home, Nappy Head Blues (open D). Explained very clearly, played very slowly. There are tabs but you don’t really need them, because it’s all so clear. I’ve moved on to his Gospel Slide Guitar and the transition is fairly seamless, i.e. not a huge leap in complexity, though definitely some new challenges.

2. I also stumbled upon a basic trick that in retrospect is totally obvious (and should apply just as well to all kinds of playing). These songs were at first totally unfamiliar to me. The DVD comes with recordings of the original players, but I also I went to Itunes and bought versions (originals and covers that seemed helpful) for my ipod etc. And then just listened to them over and over again for a few days. The difference between sitting down to play a song that’s been running through your head, as opposed to starting by reminding yourself of how it goes, is night and day. Between that and the clarity of Tom Feldmann, I found things like vibrato happening almost naturally.

3. My personal jury is still out on resonators, but I got a huge boost by contacting Steve Chipman at Vintage Parlor Guitars, and buying (for way less than even the cheapest resonator) a very cool-looking old guitar set up specifically for slide. Steve recommended a guitar with a 2” wide neck, and the wider spacing definitely helps, along with some extra string height, and I think slightly thicker strings. Stefan Grossman says on one of his disks that for slide you don’t want a guitar with lots of overtones, and this one from Steve has a very special sound of its own, a bit reminiscent of a resonator, and is very comfortable and fun to play. I’ve only had it for a couple of weeks, but its arrival coincided with the aforementioned breakthrough. Steve was great (amazing) to work with.

4. One of my instructional DVDS, by Michael Messer (also very helpful at the beginning) recommended the Tribotone slide, and it has a great sound and feel; it’s metal, and thus nice and heavy, but coated with some space age material that gives you an extra edge in damping out extraneous noise.

5. Tom Feldmann mentions that for him its important for the bottleneck not to flop around on the finger. But I found that to get one that’s long enough to cover 6 strings, including the Tribotone, there was inevitably a lot of looseness. Someone on the forum mentioned sticking in velcro strips, and when looking for some I came across some Scotch brand “mounting tape” (sticky on both sides), and put four strips down about 2/3 the barrel of the tribotone (the 2/3 was just luck, but it worked out better than going all the way). Now the bottleneck just sits firmly on there and whether it’s an illusion or actually real I feel much more in control when I play.

So, many thanks to everyone concerned.
Will

[Davis Webb]

Allman brothers, back in the day....now that's slide guitar! I think its worth a long listen to what they did.

[NevadaPic]

Ry Cooder.

[Silly Moustache]

Playing bottleneck style, or lap steel has a way of teaching you the technique of using your left hand as lightly as possible whilst using your right hand hard, medium or soft as necessary.

All require a real "feeling" for the music, as these styles are to reflect the human voice and human emotions.

All notes have to be played by ear, and should NEVER go sharp.

[Aping Leo]

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

Allman brothers, back in the day....now that's slide guitar! I think its worth a long listen to what they did.

Back in the day? How about right now! Derek Trucks is an absolute monster with the slide. Warren Haynes is no slouch either.

[Wolfram]

Some good recommendations there. The only one I disagree with (though it's more a matter of taste) is to have the slide tightly fitting. I recommend leaving room for the finger to adopt a relaxed, curved posture inside the slide supported by the adjacent finger rather than being forced straight, which can strain the tendons in your hand. Here's a shot of Martin Simpson's hand posture - the slide appears to fit tighter at the tip than it does because it is internally tapered.



You don't need to have a guitar with a very high action for slide guitar, as long as your slide is heavy enough to extract the tone you want without needing to apply much pressure to the string. I do recommend considering a heavier top string to help support the slide. I use a standard set of lights with a 13.5 gauge on the top - this means the tension in your top string tuned down to D is about the same as a standard 12 gauge string tuned to E. This way, I use the same guitars for standard fingerstyle and slide playing.

I'm also a great believer in using a heavy slide for the ultimate in tone and sustain. Our Martin Simpson Signature Slide is more than twice the weight of the Tribo-Tone and much more compact - it is made from solid nickel-tungsten carbide which is 30% heavier than lead. It's also as hard as sapphire, polished to a perfect mirror finish that will never scratch or dull. Michael Messer was pretty impressed with it - see what he thinks about it on his forum here. Unfortunately, it does cost more than the Tribo-Tone, but each one takes six weeks to make - and will last forever!

[ianLP59]

The Wolfram slides are, quite simply, mind bogglingly fantastic and worth every penny/cent if you are serious about your slide playing - nothing else comes close in the metal slide arena.

Cheers,

Ian

[mstuartev]

Often with bottleneck, the cheaper the better. As you discovered with Steve at Vintage Parlors, these old guitars (often ladderbraced) have great slide sound. My fave is a late 50's/early 60's Harmony H165 (all mahogany). Loud and percussive like a snare drum.

I had great success with the Dunlop Mudslide (ceramic I think), a cheapish brass slide and a Black Diamond. Go crazy!

[Wolfram]

Jan makes some great points. A great slide will not make you a great slide player, any more than buying a $multi-000 guitar will make you a great guitarist.

Originally Posted by JanVigne

I'm in the same boat with most slide players, I've got a bag full of slides I will probably never use because they don't deliver on sound, even for a newbie player. It doesn't take a trained ear to notice the difference between a good slide and not so good slide for your guitar. That said, I have no way to rationalize spending $50 or more on a slide when I play strictly for my own enjoyment.

I've heard this argument before though, and find it amusing - there are many slide players who are happy to shell out hundreds of dollars on slides, then keep most of them unused in a bag. But there is a refusal to even consider spending a more significant amount of money on a high-quality purpose-made slide that definitely does deliver on sound (the feedback I've had from both pros and serious amateurs on my slides is that this is not a 2%, diminishing returns thing - it's a game changer). I offer a money-back guarantee if you don't like it, and if you do it will last a lifetime without scratching or losing its polished finish. That sounds like pretty good value to me...

I'm still not sure I understand - people spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on multiple guitars to enjoy at home, but a slide - an essential tool for every slide guitarist, that influences feel, comfort and tone - has to be cheap? This is the equivalent of your finger - responsible for a great deal of the tone and feel you're achieving.

There are many other great slide makers too - such as my friends Ian McWee (Diamond Bottlenecks, UK) and Jan Simon (DaddySlide, Germany) who make fantastic slides in glass and metal respectively. I would encourage anyone who is serious about slide playing to at least invest in a proper slide - it doesn't need to be hugely expensive, and it really, really does make a difference.

[Bikewer]

I fooled around with slides a few times early on, but I only had one guitar and I didn't like re-tuning all the time. That was before electronic tuners...

However, when I started building cigar-box guitars a few years back, I got more involved. Most CBGs are played with the slide... Just part of the scene.
So, I tried all sorts; glass, steel, brass, copper.... They all work, and to my ear the differences in sound are more a matter of volume than actual sound quality.

My four-string resonator CBG was sufficiently nice that I was getting pretty adept, and I got a hankering for a "real" slide guitar.
Being pretty broke at the time, I made one... Turned my CBG skills to converting a cheap (REALLY cheap) old steel string to a resonator guitar. Thing was not half bad, actually.
Finally, I ended up buying a nice Chinese-made brass-bodied resonator which is way better than it's modest price would indicate.

I have Bob Brozman's Delta blues DVD, and mostly play in open tunings (usually G as I can sing well in G). I would count myself an intermediate slide player. Not of the caliber of Brozman or Johnny Winter.... But decent.

Important things to work on include accurate placement of the slide, proper damping, and a good, solid vibrato.

[guitargabor]

Steve James has a very good DVD on slide/blues etc.

At furPeace guitar camp ,I was fortunate enough to have him as an instructor.In 30 minutes I felt I got the "knack" of the slide technique....Well it's a work in progress.

You really don't need a resonator-get a "high" set up with medium strings and just about any acoustic should fulfill the purpose.

One thing: find the right slide that fits

Gabe

[guitargabor]

Originally Posted by Aping Leo

Back in the day? How about right now! Derek Trucks is an absolute monster with the slide. Warren Haynes is no slouch either.

+1 for Dee Trucks!

[Tony Done]

The book that got me started on bottleneck was "Country Blues Bottleneck Guitar" by Ferguson and Gellis, Walter Kane Publications. Still the best I have read.

Players I particularly like are Fred McDowell (my hero), Bukka White, Ry Cooder, John Hammond, Roy Rogers and Sonny Landreth, all of whom can be found on Youtube.

There are not many flattops that I have thought worked particularly well for slide. The two I use are a Bourgeois Martin Simpson Signature and a cedar-topped Maton 225. From what I have tried, I think the cedar/lam combination would be a good place to start looking in inexpensive flattops. - But I've played nothing I thought compared with the Bourgeois. Among resos, a lot comes down to taste, but tricones are versatile. I'm personally not wild about steel single cones.

I like a heavy brass (Dunlop) slide on acoustics, and I also make and sell genuine bottlenecks. I have a light touch but I use a low action, so a heavy slide will hammer and damage the frets on a lightly strung electric. I've found that brass is quieter than hard materials like glass and chrome plate. I use the slide on my pinky, which is very small, so I put a cork ring (I often used to get corks with the wine bottles) inside it to make a better fit. These have also sold somewhat better than the ones without rings. You can make a ring by rolling a short (about 1cm) tube of tape, sticky side out, splitting it and then sticking it inside the bottleneck. Another thing that works well is a piece of narrow electrical conduit with a piece cut out. This is a pic of some of mine showing the cork ring, they happen to be fairly short ones:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/done_family/401282962/

There are a few of my slide tunes in the Soundclick link in my sig, "John Henry" was inspired by Fred McD's version.

HTH

[WordMan]

Get comfortable with slide grooves more than learning songs.

Tune in Open G (say), and just work the slide at the 12th, 5th and 7th frets. Make up a blues riff using the 5th fret, 3rd fret and Open. It's really fun

I use a heavy brass slide. Critical to the tone I get.

[Clydeslide]

My username may suggest I'm better at slide than I really am.

I'm pretty new to it but I have found a decent slide is a massive benefit. I currently have a Diamond Bottlenecks ultimate slide, the heaviest Ian had at the time I think, and I love the sound of it. Weight really, really helps on acoustic so my advice is choose a material then go as heavy as you can. Here is an example of two great slide players whose tone on acoustic is ruined by lightweight slides:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UauECrCIYl8

I like melodic slide the best, guys like Martin Simpson and Kelly Joe Phelps, and Kelly's lap steel DVD is very good, even when translating it to regular bottleneck playing.

I actually feel I benefited most by working out song melodies myself. Auld Lang Syne works very well in open D, pretty much just working up and down the "B" string (actually high A).

Also, Martins version of In The Pines is not too tricky to get a basic version down. The tuning is CGCFCD, capo 2nd.