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  #31  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:58 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Here is a list of the IR "pedals" that I know. I currently work on a website on acoustic IR. I hope it will be ready in 1-2 months.


Strymon Iridium
500 ms / Hi-Z / IR loader / No PEQ / No HPF / No Blend

Hotone OmniIR
20 ms / Hi-Z / IR loader / PEQ / No HPF / No Blend

Logidy EPSI
1.5 s / Hi-Z / IR loader / 3bds EQ / HPF / LPF / No Blend

AMT Pangeae CP-100
20 ms / No Hi-Z / IR loader / PEQ / HPF / No Blend

AMT Virgin CAB
20 ms / No Hi-Z / IR loader / PEQ / HPF / No Blend

Yerasov IRon cab
20 ms / 60k Z / IR loader / PEQ / HPF / Blend

Joyo R-08 [CAB BOX]
20 ms / Hi-Z / IR loader / PEQ / HPF

MOOER Radar
20 ms / 100kΩ Z / IR loader / PEQ / HPF / No Blend

Nux solid studio NSS-5
46 ms / ? Z / IR loader / No PEQ / No HPF / No Blend

Nux Mini Studio NSS-3
20 ms / ?? Z / IR loader / No PEQ / No HPF / No Blend

Hotone Binary CAB
20 ms / Hi-Z / IR loader / No PEQ / No HPF / No Blend

ENGL CAB loader
20 ms / ?? Z / IR loader / No PEQ / No HPF / No Blend

Vsound 2
114 ms / Hi-Z / IR loader / PEQ / HPF / Blend

Valeton Coral CAB
? ms / ? Z / IR loader / 3bds EQ / No HPF / No Blend
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #32  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:06 AM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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There are a few annoyances with the Logidy, tho it sounds good and overall works. Issues (you may or may not care about):

It does some sort of normalization of the IRs that makes it hard to control the volume.

There are controls for the volume, mix, some EQ and other stuff, but the UI's clunky, and it's global, not per-patch.

I've been very happy with the Two Notes CabM. Nice software for capturing, manipulating and loading IRs, a text display for patches so you can have real names, not numbers. Per-patch EQ, levels, etc. It is limited to short IRs, 200ms, so you can't load reverb IRs really. The Logidy can, tho you have to use different firmware for cabinet (low latency) IRs, vs reverb.
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  #33  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:30 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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I agree with Doug. I sold the EPSI for these reasons. Note that my list does not include multifx like the atomic amplifire, kemper, helix...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
There are a few annoyances with the Logidy, tho it sounds good and overall works. Issues (you may or may not care about):

It does some sort of normalization of the IRs that makes it hard to control the volume.

There are controls for the volume, mix, some EQ and other stuff, but the UI's clunky, and it's global, not per-patch.

I've been very happy with the Two Notes CabM. Nice software for capturing, manipulating and loading IRs, a text display for patches so you can have real names, not numbers. Per-patch EQ, levels, etc. It is limited to short IRs, 200ms, so you can't load reverb IRs really. The Logidy can, tho you have to use different firmware for cabinet (low latency) IRs, vs reverb.
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #34  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:46 AM
GanAinm GanAinm is offline
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Hi Cuki: What’s the length of the Logidy EPSI – 1.5 s or ms?

To help my understanding, what’s the difference between a high ms count and a low one? And is there a relationship between the ms count and the points or sample IR count?

Just for discussion purposes, I’m going to add a link to another thread where the high length of the vsound2 is discussed. Quote:

Prof. Patrick Gaydecki explains:

"The sample rate of vsound 2 is 36 kHz. This means that the highest frequency it can reproduce is 18 kHz (i.e. the sampling theorem). This is not a problem, because the highest frequency that a violin can produce is around 8 kHz, so we have a huge safety margin. The reason I dropped it is because our IRs can be much longer – at present, they last for 114 milliseconds, whereas one of our guitar pedal competitors (they don’t supply violin IRs) has a maximum length of 20 milliseconds.

The increased length also gives us much better definition for bass notes, i.e. the lowest frequency vsound can accommodate is actually 9 Hz, far lower than the human ear can detect. This means, to refer to your earlier point, we can use exactly the same system for all of the bowed string family.

Finally, because we are sampling more slowly, it gives us more time to perform extra processing if we need it. At present, the DSP is only using just under 50% of its capacity, so we have room to add new features without changing the design."

<<Pasted from https://www.fiddleforum.com/fiddlefo...?topic=37813.0 >>
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  #35  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:49 AM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GanAinm View Post
Hi Cuki: What’s the length of the Logidy EPSI – 1.5 s or ms?

Depends on the firmware. There's one for low latency that's limited to 100ms (if I recall) and another for reverb that's much longer. You can't have them both installed at the same time. The high latency version isn't suitable for anything but reverb, you can feel the latency.
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  #36  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:37 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GanAinm View Post
Hi Cuki: What’s the length of the Logidy EPSI – 1.5 s or ms?
The EPSI goes up to 1.5 sec (65536 samples) in low latency [cab] mode and up to 6s in reverb mode.

This is by far the most powerfull pedal. It's a full Sharc processor with all its capability dedicated to IR convolution.

However it is not really convenient to use as Doug wrote earlier.
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/

Last edited by Cuki79; 02-11-2020 at 04:50 AM.
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  #37  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:49 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GanAinm View Post
To help my understanding, what’s the difference between a high ms count and a low one? And is there a relationship between the ms count and the points or sample IR count?
Here are some pictures from Strymon and Nux website:




The more pts or ms, the more resolution in the frequency domain. You don't need resolution in the high end of the spectrum. You don't hear a difference between 10 000 Hz and 10 100Hz.

However you do hear the same 100Hz difference between 400Hz and 500 Hz. The longer the IR, the more detailed is your low end.

Here is an old image I posted long time ago on the AGF:


However, the longer the IR, the more "wet" and "distant" your guitar tone will "feel". So longer is not better...

Nota Bene: To convert pts in ms, just divide the number of points by the samplinf frequency. As an example 2048 pts at 44100 Hz gives 2048/44100=46.4ms.
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #38  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:39 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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I tried out my RainSong Parlor HFN with 2048 and 1024 point IRs yesterday on my HX Stomp. I also could not hear any difference. One side effect of my "no near zeros" algorithm seems to be a relatively flatter frequency response to the IR and there is little or no bass boost. Maybe the poorer bass frequency resolution of a shorter IR is less important with IRs of this type.

My thinking about the "no near zero division" approach (NNZ), which started as a math idea, was shaped by the results I was getting. Without the NNZ I saw slow frequency changes in the frequency plot of the IR. If that was really an improvement, it struck me as something I could easily do with a parametric mid control, which I never found to be of any use on the guitars I was using as my guinea pigs.

Next I am pretty sure there is not much acoustic guitar pickup output above 9 KHz or so. This means at a 44.1 KHz sample rate that supports up to ~22 KHz, that roughly 60% of the Discrete Fourier Transform data points should be zero. And that was how I ultimately set the threshold for defining a near zero for elimination (since there are many noise sources in the math to make an actual zero impossible to happen).
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.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
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IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
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Last edited by jonfields45; 02-11-2020 at 08:00 AM.
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:26 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
I tried out my RainSong Parlor HFN with 2048 and 1024 point IRs yesterday on my HX Stomp. I also could not hear any difference. One side effect of my "no near zeros" algorithm seems to be a relatively flatter frequency response to the IR and there is little or no bass boost. Maybe the poorer bass frequency resolution of a shorter IR is less important with IRs of this type.
Makes sens... I can hear the difference with my algorithm and I am pretty sure you would with Tonedexter.

Jon, you should try to record your guitar with an external mic with reaper. Then listen applying a low-pass filter at 9 KHz and without (with good headphones or monitoring speakers).

I am curious of the result you would get.
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #40  
Old 02-11-2020, 12:12 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
The EPSI goes up to 1.5 sec (65536 samples) in low latency [cab] mode and up to 6s in reverb mode.

This is by far the most powerfull pedal. It's a full Sharc processor with all its capability dedicated to IR convolution.

However it is not really convenient to use as Doug wrote earlier.
I stand corrected! Cuki's right, 1.5 sec. So I guess you should be able to load a short room reverb into that. But there's no blend control, so it would be pretty awkward.

I have one of these pedals I'm not using, PM me if you're interested.
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  #41  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:29 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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At this point I've made IRs for one person, Cuki made my IRs for another, and one person installed Octave and made their own (not including Doug Young who had them almost forced on him by me).

Only 3 customers and it's free. So far all three report very good results.

Either the market is small or the barrier to use them is too high :~(.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
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  #42  
Old 02-13-2020, 01:50 PM
Lezz60 Lezz60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
At this point I've made IRs for one person, Cuki made my IRs for another, and one person installed Octave and made their own (not including Doug Young who had them almost forced on him by me).

Only 3 customers and it's free. So far all three report very good results.

Either the market is small or the barrier to use them is too high :~(.
i followed your instructions, and can now create my own IRs, so thank you for that. I'm experimenting with making an IR with my Yamaha SLG Silent Guitar.(with all its own processing bypassed..) ..Left channel= normal Piezo pickup, Right channel is via a Send/Return from Helix into my Zoom A3 pedal. So, instead of a Mic on the right, its an emulation of a Mic. It actually works... still tweaking, will put an IR up when i'm happy with it.
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  #43  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:33 PM
Marty C Marty C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
At this point I've made IRs for one person, Cuki made my IRs for another, and one person installed Octave and made their own (not including Doug Young who had them almost forced on him by me).

Only 3 customers and it's free. So far all three report very good results.

Either the market is small or the barrier to use them is too high :~(.
I don’t have a way to use the IR. Otherwise, I would jump into this. I spent my budget on my last guitar. Nothing left for an IR pedal. I really appreciate all the effort you put into this.
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  #44  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:56 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lezz60 View Post
i followed your instructions, and can now create my own IRs, so thank you for that. I'm experimenting with making an IR with my Yamaha SLG Silent Guitar.(with all its own processing bypassed..) ..Left channel= normal Piezo pickup, Right channel is via a Send/Return from Helix into my Zoom A3 pedal. So, instead of a Mic on the right, its an emulation of a Mic. It actually works... still tweaking, will put an IR up when i'm happy with it.
You could also measure the impulse response of the Zoom A3 directly, but what you're are trying should also work, and I've found measuring the impulse response of guitar pedals a big hassle (in particular if the pedal does not have a clip indicator).
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
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  #45  
Old 02-13-2020, 09:00 PM
caballero59 caballero59 is offline
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Kudos to jonsfield45!

I down loaded Octave plus the run-time script. Did a quick recording of my Dazzo on the left channel and stereo, cheap condenser mics summed to mono on the right and ran the script. Loaded it into my Atomic Amplifire (amp modeling disabled) and the dang thing actually worked. My first run was just to see if it would successfully complete the process and produce an IR, and it did, a slightly better result than the best 3Sigma IR that I had. I had been thinking of trying the Tonedexter again (first iteration was not successful) but wanted to see if there was a chance that this would allow me to use equipment I already owned. My experience with the Tonedexter seemed to give me a result that was always thin and distant. This approach did not. If there are any further development of this, I certainly want to stay abreast.

Thank you. This is super cool.

Last edited by caballero59; 02-13-2020 at 09:11 PM.
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