Spire and distortion

[KevinH]

I'm a newb to recording and just received an iZotope Spire Studio. It works great when I'm just using the built-in mic. However, when I plug an acoustic-electric guitar in I get a fair amount of distortion. I'd like to see what experience others have had and see if I'm doing something wrong.

I've tried using the #1 1/4" input (which cuts off the mic) as well as the #2 (which doesn't). The vol and tone controls on the guitar are set at their midway positions. Then I run a Soundcheck before each test. I've tried three guitars:

- Taylor 324ce with ES2 electronics
- Taylor GS Mini e Koa with ES-B electronics
- Breedlove Premier with LR Baggs EAS VTC electronics

The distortion I get is mostly on the bass strings (A, E). It almost has the sound of running with an amp distortion effect turned on. But I've checked and there are no effects turned on when I'm recording.

I've tried recording w/o a soundcheck (in case the "Clarity" the Spire adds is the problem), exporting an "Enhanced version", exporting in "Highest quality", changing the battery in the 324ce. In all cases, I get a distinct fuzzy sound on the bass notes. Its particularly bad with a hammered note.

I can mute it a little by muting the bass with the tone controls on the guitar. But it's still there, and that doesn't seem like a good solution anyway.

Has anyone else experienced this distortion with the Spire?
If not, what guitar electronics worked for you?
Could it be a bad 1/4" cable (I don't have another to try right now)?

I want to love this thing because it's so easy to use. But I'm teetering on sending it back.

Suggestions appreciated!

[KevWind]

I do not use a Spire, but given it has combo XLR -1/4 inch jacks and the manual says mic or instrument, you should not be getting noticeable distortion
Yes It could be a bad guitar cable so I would try replacing that first.

[Captain Jim]

I've been using the Spire for over a year now and have had no issue with any kind of distortion when plugging in a variety of guitars/pickups. More often, I run a direct line out of an amp or PA into the Spire. Or a guitar into a TC Helicon Play Acoustic with a line into the Spire. Or, guitar run direct to the Spire. No distortion in any of those scenarios.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I've been using the Spire for over a year now and have had no issue with any kind of distortion when plugging in a variety of guitars/pickups. More often, I run a direct line out of an amp or PA into the Spire. Or a guitar into a TC Helicon Play Acoustic with a line into the Spire. Or, guitar run direct to the Spire. No distortion in any of those scenarios.

Do you think you've used any of the three electronics/pickups I mentioned? Do you just plug in, do a soundcheck, and go for it? I'm going to try another cable tomorrow, when it shows up.

[paulp1960]

Does the Spire have an input gain knob? The normal solution would be to turn down the gain. Or turn down the volume on the guitar itself.

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by paulp1960

Does the Spire have an input gain knob? The normal solution would be to turn down the gain. Or turn down the volume on the guitar itself.

No. You can control the input volume with the app. Easy way is to run a "sound check" (10 seconds of playing so the Spire can determine the input level), but you still have the option of adjusting that manually, as well.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by paulp1960

Does the Spire have an input gain knob? The normal solution would be to turn down the gain. Or turn down the volume on the guitar itself.

+1 on what Captain Jim said. I've also tried it w/o doing a soundcheck, just adjusting the gain on the guitar to assure no clipping. Still got the distortion.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by KevinH

+1 on what Captain Jim said. I've also tried it w/o doing a soundcheck, just adjusting the gain on the guitar to assure no clipping. Still got the distortion.

Just a thought you have said you are getting the same distortion with all your guitars (so that eliminates a bad guitar pickup)

And you said you get it in both inputs (so that eliminates a single bad input)
which leaves either a bad guitar chord (hopefully) OR since you say the internal mics sound OK, it could be a bad instrument preamp section which means the spire is defective.
Again get another guitar chord first
Have you tried an external mic with an XLR connection ?

[jim1960]

I don't know anything about the Spire, but is there a way to select "Line In" and "Mic In"? Using the guitars pickup, you should be using "Line In." If you're using "Mic In," that might account for the distortion.

[lfoo6952]

Hi Kevin:

I've not had this issue with the Isotope Spire. I have a Santa Cruz D with a B-band pickup.

After you do your sound check with your guitar, it should recognize that you sound source is a guitar and auto selects the guitar option in your app. Then the app takes you to the recording screen. On this screen there is a button for "effects". Make sure your effects is set to your desired setting. Selecting the wrong amp or pedal effects will cause distortion. Give that a try.

Good luck.

[KevinH]

Thanks for the replies to my question about the Spire. I've been experimenting with it for a few days now and have discovered a few things.

First, I don't think the Spire is the cause of the distortion problem I was hearing. I tried using an iRig Acoustic Stage instead of the Spire and found the same problem. So, for anyone that was considering purchasing a Spire, don't let this post dissuade you. I'm planning on keeping mine. Impressive little device, and quite easy to use.

After having tried many things, I find the two Taylor guitars working pretty well now. I think part of the problem was that I wasn't doing the Soundcheck correctly. The Spire completes its soundcheck pretty quickly and I might not have given it enough samples of bass notes. That's just a guess. I've learned to give it a more representative sample, and that helped clean up the signal for the two Taylors.

The main issue was always with my Breedlove Premier, with distortion in the bass. One of the experiments I tried was to just form an E chord and pluck the strings one at a time starting with the bass E string. I used (simultaneously) both the internal mic on the Spire and the line input from the guitar. I did that for both my Taylor GS Mini and the Breedlove.

The signals are shown in the plot below. The upper two signals are from the GS Mini, with the top being the internal mic and the lower one the input from the guitar electronics. You can see the signal from each string, and the two signals are fairly similar. That looks fine. The Mini is now working great.

The bottom set of two signals are from the Breedlove. The internal mic signal again shows each string clearly. But in the the signal from the pickups, the bass E string is quite pronounced and pretty much swamps out that from the A and D strings. In fact, the Mic signal suggests I plucked the D string harder than the rest, yet it doesn't even show up in the Line signal. I think that was part of the reason that the A and D strings were kind of muddy and non-existent in my recordings with the Breedlove.

E-chord comparison Spire Studio.jpg

I've talked with the person that sold me the guitar (Matt, at Music World in Vancouver WA, an awesome guy). He's been very helpful, and brought me some custom saddles back from the Breedlove shop in Bend OR to try out. They're thinking it might be an issue with contact between the saddle and the pickups. I'm hoping that will fix the problem.