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  #16  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:17 AM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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As someone who considers themselves more of a mandolinist than a guitarist, I thought I would chime in.

1) I agree that a good instrument is important, and a playable mandolin costs more than a playable guitar (there is no mandolin analog to a Yamaha), but your price point is way off. For $300-400 you can get a new Kentucky KM 150 from The Mandolin Store or Folk Musician. These stores will give you a well set up instrument that is perfectly adequate to learn on. If you don't play bluegrass, you can go with a flattop mandolin like a Mid Missouri/Big Muddy. These are great, all solid wood mandolins made in America for under $1k new or about $500 used. For about $1k you can get a Kentucky KM 900 which, if set up well, is a perfectly gig-worthy mandolin.

2) A mandolin pick is important. You probably need a thicker pick than you think to get the top vibrating.

3) The mandolin is not a small guitar. It requires different techniques (see below).

4) You will spend your entire life chasing good mandolin tone. It is almost like a violin in that even after you learn to play, you will forever be learning to coax a pleasing tone out of the instrument.

5) Tuning in fifths is a not only more intuitive, it is mechanically easier, so finding single note melodies is indeed much easier. The problem goes back to the tone issue. You can learn tunes quickly on the mandolin, but you will spend a lifetime refining them, getting better single note tone, adding double stops and ornamentation, etc.

6) I think the more you play mandolin, the less transference from guitar you find. In the beginning, it feels like a little guitar. it isn't. Things you don't think that much about on guitar like pick angle, and the angle of your fretting hand/fingers to the fretboard make a huge difference in how you play and how you sound. You sort of cover this in your point two, but I wanted to put a finer point on it. It is hard to play expressively on the mandolin. You can't really bend notes; you can't really use vibrato, so pick attack and lefthand legato become your primary modes of lyrical and expressive playing.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:23 AM
henryp henryp is offline
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Guitars just want to please you, mandolins don't give a rat's rear for your self-esteem.
So my guitar is a dog but a mandolin is a cat. :-)
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:26 AM
chicfarmer1 chicfarmer1 is offline
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Maybe this goes with saying but the tremolo technique is how you achieve sustain on a mandolin, very unlike with a guitar. Naturally this means your right hand is the one that will take more developing, compared to the famiiar notion of fretting. Of course because of the very tight string spacing, it won't particularly resemble flatpicking, either.
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  #19  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:27 AM
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I got the Eastman MD-505 for Xmas and I could not be happier with it. I put Thomastik Infeld strings on it and it rarely goes out of tune. HHP's and Posternutbag's tips and observations are accurate to my learning experience. I am working with Sharon Gilchrist's beginner course on Peghead Nation.
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:42 AM
leew3 leew3 is offline
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Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
While I'm sure it's good advice to go for the best instrument, what does someone who isn't quite sure about playing mando do for an initial buy-in? I'm intrigued by it, but I'm not sure if I'll become obsessed with learning it, or have it as a novelty for a month then put it aside.

$1500 for my first mando is definitely out. What's reasonable, and what can I buy for "reasonable" money that will suit my needs without knowing how I'll feel in two or three months?

Thoughts?
First, everything the OP said is right on the money. My first mandolin just to see if I liked playing it was a Loar 520 for around $400 I think. As Rokdog notes, after about 6 months on that and seeing I liked it I picked up my current Breedlove Legacy OF. You can get a lot more mandolin for the money in an A style as the labor costs are much lower. Some would say that not having a traditional 'F' style compromises tone, but you're just starting out so don't worry about that right now. The Breedlove was on sale from the Mandolin Store and if I recall it was around $1k. However, you'll find lots of good recommendations here and check out the Mando Cafe for more mandolin specific info. In short, it's a fun little instrument that will provide hours of entertainment. as a bonus you will develop bullet proof finger tips!
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  #21  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:56 AM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
While I'm sure it's good advice to go for the best instrument, what does someone who isn't quite sure about playing mando do for an initial buy-in? I'm intrigued by it, but I'm not sure if I'll become obsessed with learning it, or have it as a novelty for a month then put it aside.

$1500 for my first mando is definitely out. What's reasonable, and what can I buy for "reasonable" money that will suit my needs without knowing how I'll feel in two or three months?

Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by leew3 View Post
First, everything the OP said is right on the money. My first mandolin just to see if I liked playing it was a Loar 520 for around $400 I think. As Rokdog notes, after about 6 months on that and seeing I liked it I picked up my current Breedlove Legacy OF. You can get a lot more mandolin for the money in an A style as the labor costs are much lower. Some would say that not having a traditional 'F' style compromises tone, but you're just starting out so don't worry about that right now. The Breedlove was on sale from the Mandolin Store and if I recall it was around $1k. However, you'll find lots of good recommendations here and check out the Mando Cafe for more mandolin specific info. In short, it's a fun little instrument that will provide hours of entertainment. as a bonus you will develop bullet proof finger tips!
Some people really like "The Loar" mandolins as intro mandolins, but I haven't heard one that I would be happy playing, or even giving to a beginner.

There are basically three ways to go if you are trying to get an inexpensive mandolin.

1) Buy something in the $100 price range (A Rogue) and then email Rob Meldrum on mandolin cafe for his free ebook on mandolin setup. I don't like this method. It relies on a beginner being able to set up their own mandolin, which may be fine in theory, but seems unrealistic to me. But I am not very handy, so most all setup work is unrealistic for me. I mention this option mostly for the sake of completion. But some people on MC have reported success.

2) Go to a reputable mandolin store like Folk Musician or The Mandolin Store (NFI) and order a Kentucky KM 150. There was a time when Pac Rim mandolins were terrible. Kentucky mandolins were terrible until the line was re-launched in 2012 or so (note, I am NOT speaking of the "Made in Japan" Kentucky mandolins from the 1980s, those were solid to very good instruments, although I tend to think they are a tad over-rated). Eastman was really the first Pac Rim builder to get low to mid priced mandolins right, starting around 2005. If you look at threads on Mandolin Cafe, you will notice a slow but burgeoning respect for Chinese-made mandolins. IMO, Eastman has been surpassed by Kentucky over the last five years or so as the goto mandolin for beginners, and Northfield is putting out Chinese-made mandolins that will go toe to toe with Gibsons (IMO). But a Kentucky KM 150 is a fine beginner mandolin, if it is set up properly.

3) Before Pac Rim mandolins became viable options in the low to mid-tier mandolin market, the standard advice on Mandolin Cafe was to buy a Mid Missouri/Big Muddy mandolin. They are the same mandolin, the same luthier; he just changed the name of the company some years ago, but you can find really nice, American made, all solid wood, flattop mandolins under both names. These are very good mandolins that start under $1k new. You can find them used for $400-$500. The thing is, they are good mandolins (I have owned 2), but they are not bluegrass mandolins. They have more sustain than is optimal for bluegrass, and they don't have a woody, percussive chop due to their construction (flattops and oval soundholes, like a flattop guitar). But if you don't play bluegrass, they can be lifetime mandolins.

Those are, IMO your best options for a quality beginner mandolin, and for me, the second and third options will be the most satisfying.
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  #22  
Old 06-16-2017, 01:24 PM
fatt-dad fatt-dad is offline
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Where are you in Richmond? I grew up on Staples Mill Road.
Over by the University of Richmond - just west of the Huguenot Bridge.

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  #23  
Old 06-16-2017, 01:38 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Over by the University of Richmond - just west of the Huguenot Bridge.

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  #24  
Old 06-16-2017, 01:48 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mick's Goat Whiskey Picks View Post
I've started dabbling back into mandolin recently and I really do enjoy the instrument. I'd like to find a resource of easy movable chords to get me up and playing songs quicker. Melodies do come a lot easier. Also there are some really good less expensive mandolins out there if you look around. I bought this Washburn from Sweetwater for $500 with a hard shell case and it sounds fantastic. All solid wood too. My hardcore bluegrass mandolin buddies have all been very impressed with it.

Nice mandolin ! ... I doubt I will ever aspire to learning to play mandolin, but if I ever did , it would be with an F model like that .

I could no more contemplate owning an A mandolin than I could owning a zero fret guitar.
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  #25  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:00 PM
DesolationAngel DesolationAngel is offline
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Anyone have any thoughts about the difficulties one might face being a guitarist who wanted to go to a lower register mando instead of a regular mandolin? Octave mandolin or mandocello? I love, love, love the sound of the lower register and wouldn't mind investigating...
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  #26  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:10 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Anyone have any thoughts about the difficulties one might face being a guitarist who wanted to go to a lower register mando instead of a regular mandolin? Octave mandolin or mandocello? I love, love, love the sound of the lower register and wouldn't mind investigating...
No particular problem other than the notion of doubled courses on scales that long. I switch back and forth from mandolin to tenor banjo which would be a similar scale to an octave mandolin. If I recall, a mandocello low C string is usually about an .074.
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  #27  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:30 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Originally Posted by DesolationAngel View Post
Anyone have any thoughts about the difficulties one might face being a guitarist who wanted to go to a lower register mando instead of a regular mandolin? Octave mandolin or mandocello? I love, love, love the sound of the lower register and wouldn't mind investigating...
There is a lot of interest in Octave Mandolins right now. Mandolinists like Sierra Hull and Sarah Jarosz are utilizing them extensively. My guitar/mandolin teacher has one. The are more resonant, and their register tends to fit most voices better than a mandolin. But here is the thing, I can't really see a scenario where I would choose an OM over a mandolin or guitar.
A mandolin is a superior instrument for playing melodies (shorter scale length, a better melody register) and a guitar is (usually) a better instrument for vocal accompaniment.

I am sure there are scenarios where an OM is perfect (maybe as the sole choral instrument in an Irish session), but, to me, they seem overspecialized.
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  #28  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:38 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
There is a lot of interest in Octave Mandolins right now. Mandolinists like Sierra Hull and Sarah Jarosz are utilizing them extensively. My guitar/mandolin teacher has one. The are more resonant, and their register tends to fit most voices better than a mandolin. But here is the thing, I can't really see a scenario where I would choose an OM over a mandolin or guitar.
A mandolin is a superior instrument for playing melodies (shorter scale length, a better melody register) and a guitar is (usually) a better instrument for vocal accompaniment.

I am sure there are scenarios where an OM is perfect (maybe as the sole choral instrument in an Irish session), but, to me, they seem overspecialized.
When I was with a mandolin orchestra, the octaves were used in much the same way as a bass guitar would be.

For a lower register, might even think about mandola. Tuned a fifth below mandolin but more comparable in utility to the mandolin. Seen some builders make 10 string mandolas that add a pair of high e strings so you have both registers on one instrument.
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  #29  
Old 06-16-2017, 04:02 PM
Frogstar Frogstar is offline
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Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
Nice mandolin ! ... I doubt I will ever aspire to learning to play mandolin, but if I ever did , it would be with an F model like that .

I could no more contemplate owning an A mandolin than I could owning a zero fret guitar.
Ha, I own six mandolins, not an F in the lot (strictly due to price, I like the aesthetics but can't bring myself to pay that much more for one).

'course I also own a bouzouki with a zero fret...
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  #30  
Old 06-16-2017, 04:06 PM
Frogstar Frogstar is offline
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Originally Posted by DesolationAngel View Post
Anyone have any thoughts about the difficulties one might face being a guitarist who wanted to go to a lower register mando instead of a regular mandolin? Octave mandolin or mandocello? I love, love, love the sound of the lower register and wouldn't mind investigating...
If you have local access to a Trinity College octave mandolin, mandola, or mandocello to try out, I'd recommend that. I laid hands on one recently and it exceeded my expectations.
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