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  #16  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:09 AM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Default Thanks, Paddy

I do have a Kingpin with the P-90, and it hangs very well with the three Strat players I jam with on Friday nights. It's fun to be different and play an archtop outside its traditional role. And the Kingpin tends to stand out from those solidbodies, which is a good thing when there's four guitars in a room. So for now, I'm leaning towards an electric & gained-up style with it. But if it could also double as my mellow acoustic archtop, my regular Fifth could be sold or traded (I'm not trying to start a collection).

Interesting you would suggest "The Loar." Yesterday in GC, while I was picking up some of the Monel strings Steve recommended, I paused by the lonesome hollow-body display and picked up a thin-bodied Loar. I'm no stickler, but that guitar was a wreck. The neck had probably shrunk in our dry Denver climate, so the fret ends stuck out sharply all up and down the neck. I looked at the neck joint and saw a small fragment of fabric stuck there by stray glue. I strummed a few chords and heard a tinny, thin sound. All I can say is, Gibson's genius craftsman must be spinning in his grave...

Last edited by Birdbrain; 02-14-2017 at 10:14 AM. Reason: additional thought
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  #17  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:12 AM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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I think they'll sound good on mine, too. But I have to go back today and get some more. Last night while I was stringing up, I left too little slack in the B string so it only wound around twice. Trying to adjust that, like I've done many times before, I loosened the string and started over. But the string immediately snapped at the point it was turned around the peg. Maybe there's a certain brittleness to Monel?
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  #18  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:13 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Nashvillian View Post
I do have a Kingpin with the P-90, and it hangs very well with the three Strat players I jam with on Friday nights. I'll happily give up access to those high frets I can't reach, in favor of the richness and body of the KP's tone. So for now, I'm leaning towards an electric & gained-up style with it. But if it could also double as my mellow acoustic archtop, my regular Fifth could be sold or traded (I'm not trying to start a collection).

Interesting you would suggest "The Loar." Yesterday in GC, while I was picking up some of the Monel strings Steve recommended, I paused by the lonesome hollow-body display and picked up a thin-bodied Loar. I'm no stickler, but that guitar was a wreck. The neck had probably shrunk in our dry Denver climate, so the fret ends stuck out sharply all up and down the neck. I looked at the neck joint and saw a small fragment of fabric stuck there by stray glue. I strummed a few chords and heard a tinny, thin sound. All I can say is, Gibson's genius craftsman must be spinning in his grave...

The higher priced Loars are really nice, the cheaper ones are junk, IME.
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  #19  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:18 AM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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I don't recall the price. But once you get to four figures, there's an endless number of great choices. Keeping my target budget south of $500 really simplifies my shopping. And I've become a fan of Godin for offering so much goodness at that level.
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  #20  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:20 AM
paddybrumson paddybrumson is offline
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Yes, The Loars can be dicey for the less expensive ones, which is why I settled on the LH-600 which also likes the Monels, though they are a bit brighter than either phospher bronze or 80/20s. A used LH-600 would be a good bang for your buck choice if you can find one.
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  #21  
Old 02-14-2017, 11:31 AM
Dadzmad Dadzmad is offline
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Agreeing with the above posters, I have been using the Martin Retro Monel strings on my Kingpin with very good results both acoustic and plugged in. The monel is corrosion resistant and the strings seem to last a long time. At least 4 months for me. In fact I change them when the windings start cracking over the frets.

Another option for monel strings is Rotosound Top Tape flatwounds. If I remember right they are about $11 a set ordered online. Personally I like the more punchy sound of the roundwounds on my Kingpin and use the Rotosound flatwounds on my Stratocaster. But I thought I would mention this option if someone wanted to try some reasonably priced monel flatwounds on thier Kingpin.
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  #22  
Old 02-18-2017, 07:04 AM
ballynally ballynally is offline
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Hi. Like you i'm not much of a jazz player but play everything roots related including western swing.I was looking at the Godin 5th ave some time ago.Aiming for the acoustic w a possible added floating pickup. I already have an Epi ES295 with P90s like the Kingpin so i know what that sounds like.(btw, before i bought the Epi i tried a Gretsch Electromatic but that had a very cheap feel to it).Going for a more woody acoustic sound. While archtop hunting i played a Gretsch New Yorker that looked promising but was really awful both in sound and in feel, i'm sorry to say. I didn't try the Godin, was eyeing the Loars and was then looking at more expensive Eastmans that i know i won't buy before i stumbled upon the new Epiphone reissues of their archtops like the Masterbilt solid tops De Luxe, Zenith, and Olympic, as opposed to the laminate Godin.Not saying laminate is bad though as a good laminate is better than a bad solid wood.
There are some really promising Epiphone videos out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXhnjOE48fI and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfuC_d96GcM. They are a tad more expensive but not at Eastman price level. Closer to the Loar.
At the same time i was thinking of amplification and was looking at the deArmond (now Guild) rhythm chief. Then i thought a bit harder after almost going for an Epiphone Zenith with round soundhole for i have an old Kalamazoo K14 hanging on the wall. Very punchy and similar. I could've opted for a deArmond but to retain the acoustic properties i've now ordered a K&K pure mini and see how that pans out. I can always add a deArmond later.

Oh, i use Monels on both my Kalamazoo and Loar mandolin..

Last edited by ballynally; 02-18-2017 at 07:30 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-18-2017, 11:37 AM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Default Monels, well...

I'm going to give the new Martin Retro Monel strings a week or so to make up my mind, but after one jam session last night, I'm not impressed. My acoustic Fifth Avenue (wish I could remember the strings, but they're optimized for acoustic) sounds much better unplugged. The Kingpin now has low electric volume and an overly hot B string, which has been the problem with the Fishman pickup in my Seagull acoustic, too. Maybe it could sound good playing solo, but with electric strings my Kingpin was fully capable of hanging with my buddies's Stratocasters, showing real power and dynamics.

Maybe the killer feature of the Fifth Avenue is its low price, which helps you afford owning two, one in each flavor?
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  #24  
Old 02-18-2017, 12:21 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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Ballynally, it sounds like your desire for woody acoustic tone would take you towards the new Epiphones, which Guitar Player liked very much- see the review in their current issue.

Are these in the stores yet? I haven't seen one.
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2017, 12:59 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Nashvillian View Post
Ballynally, it sounds like your desire for woody acoustic tone would take you towards the new Epiphones, which Guitar Player liked very much - see the review in their current issue.

Are these in the stores yet? I haven't seen one.
FYI I tried the entire family - Olympic, Zenith, and Deluxe - at Sam Ash not too long ago. Perhaps it's the fact that I've been acquainted with the New York originals all my life, played more than my share over the last 55 years, and owned an original '46 Blackstone, but to say the least I was more than a bit disappointed in the overall package; frankly, it's far more than just the question of building to a price - the current Epiphone company has proven more than capable of incorporating period-appropriate features into their product line - but if you're looking for tone first and foremost IMO you'd be far better-served with one of the competitive Loar models (if you can find a good one) rather than the Deluxe/Zenith, and my Godin 5th Avenue just plain eats the similarly-priced Olympic for breakfast, period. I'm well aware that everybody has their own taste, but objectively speaking you might not find the necks - a heavy, rounded "Louisville Slugger" shape intended to mimic a generic '30s profile, but which in fact never appeared on any period Epi (some of the '37-39 instruments boasted 1-9/16" necks - a specification that would not see use for another quarter-century - as regular production) - to your liking; in addition, the acoustic projection is far from what it should be for this type of instrument - the recently-discontinued 17" Gretsch Synchromatic 400 makes the Deluxe sound/look like a toy - so take that into consideration as well if you're going to be playing primarily unplugged. Finally, I'm at a point in both my life and my playing that I take magazine reviews with a grain of salts (plural intended); I'd suggest reading them in nothing but the most general terms - bearing in mind that there's a hefty amount of advertising money upon which they're heavily dependent - and using a combination of first-person feedback and personal hands-on experience to make an informed decision...
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  #26  
Old 02-18-2017, 01:04 PM
Birdbrain Birdbrain is offline
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I know I wouldn't like that kind of neck, because my hands are on the small side.

Playing tells you all you need to know about a guitar, but you have to find one first. If the body's the right size and shape, and the neck fits your fingers, everything else is (somewhat) adjustable. Pickups can be added, and tweaked. Then there's all those knobs on your amp. But does it feel like it was made precisely for you. My Fifth Avenues do.

And you just won't know that until it's there in your lap. That's the weakness of online advice, even from someone much more knowledgable than myself.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2017, 01:08 PM
bayoubengal bayoubengal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
FYI I tried the entire family - Olympic, Zenith, and Deluxe - at Sam Ash not too long ago. Perhaps it's the fact that I've been acquainted with the New York originals all my life, played more than my share over the last 55 years, and owned an original '46 Blackstone, but to say the least I was more than a bit disappointed in the overall package; frankly, it's far more than just the question of building to a price - the current Epiphone company has proven more than capable of incorporating period-appropriate features into their product line - but if you're looking for tone first and foremost IMO you'd be far better-served with one of the competitive Loar models (if you can find a good one) rather than the Deluxe/Zenith, and my Godin 5th Avenue just plain eats the similarly-priced Olympic for breakfast, period. I'm well aware that everybody has their own taste, but objectively speaking you might not find the necks - a heavy, rounded "Louisville Slugger" shape intended to mimic a generic '30s profile, but which in fact never appeared on any period Epi (some of the '37-39 instruments boasted 1-9/16" necks - a specification that would not see use for another quarter-century - as regular production) - to your liking; in addition, the acoustic projection is far from what it should be for this type of instrument - the recently-discontinued 17" Gretsch Synchromatic 400 makes the Deluxe sound/look like a toy - so take that into consideration as well if you're going to be playing primarily unplugged. Finally, I'm at a point in both my life and my playing that I take magazine reviews with a grain of salts (plural intended); I'd suggest reading them in nothing but the most general terms - bearing in mind that there's a hefty amount of advertising money upon which they're heavily dependent - and using a combination of first-person feedback and personal hands-on experience to make an informed decision...
I haven't gotten to play any but the videos I've heard left me uninspired. I WANTED so badly to like them because they seem to be marketing towards players like me. I know some new owners love them.
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  #28  
Old 02-19-2017, 08:33 AM
ballynally ballynally is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
FYI I tried the entire family - Olympic, Zenith, and Deluxe - at Sam Ash not too long ago. Perhaps it's the fact that I've been acquainted with the New York originals all my life, played more than my share over the last 55 years, and owned an original '46 Blackstone, but to say the least I was more than a bit disappointed in the overall package; frankly, it's far more than just the question of building to a price - the current Epiphone company has proven more than capable of incorporating period-appropriate features into their product line - but if you're looking for tone first and foremost IMO you'd be far better-served with one of the competitive Loar models (if you can find a good one) rather than the Deluxe/Zenith, and my Godin 5th Avenue just plain eats the similarly-priced Olympic for breakfast, period. I'm well aware that everybody has their own taste, but objectively speaking you might not find the necks - a heavy, rounded "Louisville Slugger" shape intended to mimic a generic '30s profile, but which in fact never appeared on any period Epi (some of the '37-39 instruments boasted 1-9/16" necks - a specification that would not see use for another quarter-century - as regular production) - to your liking; in addition, the acoustic projection is far from what it should be for this type of instrument - the recently-discontinued 17" Gretsch Synchromatic 400 makes the Deluxe sound/look like a toy - so take that into consideration as well if you're going to be playing primarily unplugged. Finally, I'm at a point in both my life and my playing that I take magazine reviews with a grain of salts (plural intended); I'd suggest reading them in nothing but the most general terms - bearing in mind that there's a hefty amount of advertising money upon which they're heavily dependent - and using a combination of first-person feedback and personal hands-on experience to make an informed decision...
Thanks for that insight. It helps the OP. I agree with your view about sales pitches. That's why we have forums.And even then you have to try them yourself. I tried my friend's Gretsch Synchromatic 400 and i liked it up to a point. It had a floating pup that worked well. I'd say it is on line with the Loar models. I have a LH 600 arch top Loar mandolin to compare it with.
I would say that if you need an archtop solely for acoustic properties you'd be better of going high spec solid top like Eastman et al. If you need it amplified it doesn't really matter much. However, you need at least some resonance to play with apart from hardware issues (adjustable bridge, brittle metal parts no thanks). You want some vibe before anything. To me the new Gretsch New Yorker did not have that and i hoped the reissue Epis would. If they get anywhere near the old Epi Olympic or Zenith it would do me.You say that they don't. That looks like my experience with the Gretsch NY ri. The old Epis are now getting very pricey (they couldn't get rid of them in the 1980's). I blame Dave Rawlings though it's not his fault. So, the Godin 5th ave remains in the game then..
Oh, about reissues: they either do them exactly to specs or they modify. I have no issues (or reissues) with mods as long as it helps the specific guitar. It seems that especially neck contour, fingerboard radius and fret size specs are important. I think it's safe to say that nobody likes a V neck and sharp edges. Plus i think that bigger size frets are better, 10 and over beats 7.5 radius and that the neck shouldn't be too small or too big. Then you can choose between C, D or any other shape. What do players really want is more important to me than exact specs.The Godin looks good in that department..


I hope the OP hasn't bought anything yet..

Last edited by ballynally; 02-19-2017 at 09:00 AM.
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  #29  
Old 02-19-2017, 12:15 PM
bayoubengal bayoubengal is offline
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Originally Posted by ballynally View Post

I hope the OP hasn't bought anything yet..
Not yet, but I do have some options.

Plans A and B depend on selling a guitar I have and I hope to realize around $1200 from the sale because the price tag of the guitar I have in my sights is a little two times the cost of the Godin 5th Ave Kingpin once you buy the case for the Kingpin separately.

If that happens, Plan A is to buy an Eastman AR610 equipped with a Barbera Soloist pickup from Sound Pure (I posted a separate thread about it).

In case those guitars get sold, I would buy an Eastman AR610 (new or used) and a Barbera Soloist separately and get the pick up installed.

I believe Plans A and B would give me the best combination of unplugged and plugged in sound because the AR610 is all solid woods and I believe the Soloist Pick up is of high quality.

If I can't sell my guitar quickly enough and my patience gets tried, Plan C is to buy the Godin 5th Ave Kingpin and I'm sure it will more than meet my needs.

I'll keep y'all posted!
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1974 Martin D-28 (A gift for my 20th birthday from Mom and Dad)
"Frankenstein" 1948 Gibson J-50 Body/1938 L-00 Neck
2008 Martin 000-18 Norman Blake
2006 Jubal Jumbo
2016 New Era Crooked Star Prairie State Jumbo
2016 New Era Crooked Star Senorita
2020 Iris Smeck
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Last edited by bayoubengal; 02-19-2017 at 04:44 PM.
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  #30  
Old 03-01-2017, 12:59 AM
bayoubengal bayoubengal is offline
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Hey Folks--
I thought I would give an update on my quest for my first archtop.
After doing more research and listening to a lot of sound clips (I know it's not a great representation of reality but it's the best I have with no ability to play these guitars in person), I have realized that I actually am looking for the more old school parallel braced spruce top with maple b/s sound instead of the more "modern jazz" sound of the X braced boxes.

So that takes X braced Eastmans out of the equation, even though I believe they are great guitars for the money. So it looks like I am circling back to either the Loar LH-600 or The Loar LH-700 (parallel braced) since a vintage solid wood Gibson is out of my reach and I don't want to invest a boatload of money to just get started in the archtop world.

I'll keep you posted when I make a purchase. Thanks to all of you sharing your knowledge to this clueless newbie!
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1974 Martin D-28 (A gift for my 20th birthday from Mom and Dad)
"Frankenstein" 1948 Gibson J-50 Body/1938 L-00 Neck
2008 Martin 000-18 Norman Blake
2006 Jubal Jumbo
2016 New Era Crooked Star Prairie State Jumbo
2016 New Era Crooked Star Senorita
2020 Iris Smeck
1972 Guild Killdeer F112-6 Part Deux
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