Anybody own an Emerald X20 Artisan and an X20 Woody?

[Puerto Player]

Looking to talk with somebody who owns both guitars, just one a Woody and one a non-woody artisan X20's. Thanks.

[byudzai]

I have a woody and non-woody X30, that any help?

[kdcee]

I have a Woody fan fret X20 and a Synergy X20.

[mountainmaster]

Sorry, I cannot help you but I'm just wondering what the point of your question is.

Because... judging by you signature you already have both of those guitars. Is there a problem with one of them?

Mountain;

I'd guess that Puerto is checking his perception of difference.

[mot]

How something looks will bias how it sounds or who you will vote for even. Best keep your eyes closed if you can.

CF owners sort of went through the same question regarding the Cargo--did the gloss sound different than the raw? One common feeling with the Cargo was that the gloss sounded warmer but lost some projection. I have not heard such a judgment regarding woody/weave difference--but there have been questions. I think that's what we're getting from Puerto Player.

[Puerto Player]

Yea, it's a sound thing for me. I just wanted to see if my ears are picking up the same differences as somebody else's may be.

GOOD QUESTION.

[Captain Jim]

I remember reading a while back that Alistair said the tonal difference between an Artisan and a wood veneer would be insignificant.

[byudzai]

I did a ton of A/Bing back when I first got them. Every time I thought there was a difference, it would disappear in the next experiment. If it's there, it's probably like the difference between cutaway and non-cutaway: irrelevant.

[benderman57]

I have owned both at the same time. Sold off the Artisan to get a new X30. When I had them both it was just a plain black carbon Artisan X20 and I still own my Cocobolo X20. I had these at the same time for around a year.

Did they sound a little different? Well every guitar I have sounds a little different but I would say blindfolded you would not be able to tell those two apart if they both had on fresh alike strings and all that being equal.

I'm with Emerald on this one. I just don't think the veneer could make much of a tone impact. Maybe a little but I don't think it's anything I could hear if all else was equal.

Byudzai;

I'm not sure about the suggestion that there's little difference between a cutaway and a non-cutaway. It seems to me that deleting half a bout would necessarily have some effect on both tone and projection.

I'm a fan of cutaways. I haven't noticed any objectionable difference in tonal quality, but in my experience there is a loss of acoustic projection with a cutaway. I base this judgment on classical nylon string guitars compared to hybrid nylon instruments with a cutaway.

I could be wrong. It will be interesting to hear what others have to say.

[Melt in the Sun]

Alistair's comments on this:

Originally Posted by Alistair Hay

Sean mentioned this thread to me and I thought it would be useful to bring some clarification to the table.
Firstly the veneers we use are very thin and are actually fused to the surface of the carbon during the moulding process. Under Vacuum the resin penetrates right into every pore of the veneer at the same time as it penetrates the carbon fibres and this stabilises the veneer and prevents future movement during temperature and humidity changes.
We alter the top structure slightly to balance out the extra veneer and keep the weight and stiffness the same as on an all-carbon guitar.
Now on the question of tone, yes there are some differences but they are subtle. If I were to do a blind test of 10 of my guitars I could hear subtle differences from one to the other, but If you asked me to choose which were carbon and which had a veneer I fear I would not be able to accurately make that call.
In general on a direct side by side test I would probably say that the woody is a bit warmer brought about by a reduction in some mid frequencies.
As someone mentioned earlier, string type would have a much more fundamental effect on tone than the veneer choice.
On the question of Opus and Artisan there is no difference as they are moulded exactly the same way using the same materials and there is the same type and amount of top coat finish applied but in the case of the textured Crystal Ice finish we just have a different method of application.
Also to clarify one last point, The mention of Gloss Vs Raw finish relates to CA Guitars not Emerald. We don't do a Raw carbon finish.

There will always be subtle differences between instruments even of the same model, but I think in the carbon world those differences are far smaller than in the wood world.

Im always glad to bring clarification to any questions you may have. Maybe we should start a thread of FAQ's and you guys can quiz me directly
Hope this helps
Alistair

[Puerto Player]

Thanks guys, that's what I needed to know, and figured. I would have imagined that if there was a significant tonal difference, someone would have chimed in about it. I got one with a significant tonal difference that I noticed the first 2 seconds of strumming it. In a way, I'm sort of, kind of glad.