Lets Talk DIs...I know NOTHING about them...

[Davis Webb]

Hello all

I know nothing about DIs, I never use one, I just go J45 element into the PA or into an effects box. Works okay. But its amazing what you can used to, to quote Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse...

So I read this;;;


https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/di-boxes/

So what does a DI do for you, what brands are the most popular?

How does it work alongside an EQ, or do they have EQ?

Where does it go in the signal chain? What are the main benefits?

Are there DI units that have other features such as reverb?

How does a DI differ from a pre-amp or is it a type of preamp?

I can google all of this and I will, but I would like to know if I should get one and if so, which one, price points, value for money..all that

TIA

[Mandobart]

Your linked article explains it well. For most acoustic instruments, the reason for a passive DI is to match the high output impedance of a piezoelectric transducer (in the megohm range) to the low input impedance of a typical mixer channel (in the kilohm range). Failure to do this is the primary cause of the brittle, tinny "quack" often associated with piezo's. An active DI does a little more by converting the signal to a balanced output for less attenuation when using longer cable runs to the board. Adding a preamp to the DI box can boost the signal and allow EQ. Whatever you use it goes right after the instrument in the chain.

You can plug straight in without an intermediate box if you're plugging into a high impedance input with a built-in preamp for piezo's (HI Z). If you have a built-in preamp on your instrument (barn door on upper bout or in the end pin) you can also plug right in - you already have a box.

A decent DI/preamp will never hurt your sound even if its not needed. I have experienced several instrument/piezo/mixer combinations where the DI/preamp was crucial to getting a good sound.

I used this Behringer ADI21 with success for years. I still bring it along as a backup. I also like the K&K Pure, still have one of these in my tool box. My current favorite is the RedEye. There are many more options to be posted below. You can get preamp/DI's that combine dual channels, EQ, a tuner/mute, boost for solos, etc.

[Davis Webb]

Wow. Okay, learning. Thanks for that.

How do you folks feel about making a purchase choice...?

https://equipboard.com/posts/best-di-box

I gig for medium to large groups with S1 pro through a passive mix board that also handles my kick pedal.

I frequently have no power...but I do have a Volta to power my current pedals.

[RedJoker]

I also have the behringer adi21 but recently bought a k&k pure. I wanted the belt clip so I could adjust volume easily between songs. Both work great for me.

[lschwart]

Your Baggs Element pickup is active, so as long as you're not running a very long cable from the guitar to the mixer's input, you don't actually need a DI box. You would need one if your pickup were passive (in that case you would need to change the impedance of your pickup signal to match what the line or instrument inputs on the mixer expect to see). You would also perhaps benefit, in that case, from the the DI's balancing of your signal, so that you could use an XLR cable to go from the DI into one of the mixer's mic inputs--this helps with noise and signal loss for long cable runs.

If, however, you don't like the sound of the pickup going direct into the mixer, and you can't make it sound better with the EQ available to you on the mixer or on your S1, you might benefit from one of the many DI/Preamp/EQ units out there, like the Baggs Para Acoustic DI or Venue DI, or the Fishman Platinum Pro, Radial PZ-Pre or PZ-Deluxe, etc, and etc. These units do what a DI does, and they add various other features that players of amplified acoustic guitars often fine useful: a preamp, a fairly elaborate EQ section, FX loops, feedback filters, boost switches, high pass filters, etc.

Louis

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

Hello all

I know nothing about DIs, I never use one, I just go J45 element into the PA or into an effects box. Works okay. But its amazing what you can used to, to quote Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse...

So I read this;;;


https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/di-boxes/

So what does a DI do for you, what brands are the most popular?

How does it work alongside an EQ, or do they have EQ?

Where does it go in the signal chain? What are the main benefits?

Are there DI units that have other features such as reverb?

How does a DI differ from a pre-amp or is it a type of preamp?

I can google all of this and I will, but I would like to know if I should get one and if so, which one, price points, value for money..all that

TIA

Hi DW…
People often confuse a simple direct box (DI box) for a preamp which also contains DI capabilities.

A direct box (DI) simply converts high impedance (¼" guitar cable output) to Low Impedance - normally as an XLR or Microphone cable output. The article explained it pretty well, but people often assume you need an expensive DI to accomplish things well.

The max distance before deterioration of the signal of a standard guitar cable is about 20 feet. An XLR can run for a couple hundred feet and deliver a matching signal to the PA without loss.

A passive Direct Box (DI box) to convert the high impedance of the guitar out to XLR for a long run to the PA board, can be bought for under $30. I've even found them for $20. A passive DI will do the job quite nicely without affecting your sound if you don't have the need for a preamp to boost the signal and enlarge tone shaping capabilities.

For passive pickups (NO internal preamp or battery inside a guitar), especially piezo pickups, a powered preamp is needed to maximize the tone of a guitar and send a properly balanced signal to the board/amp.

Many of the better ones also have built-in DI (direct box) capabilities. They are not DI boxes, but preamps with DI capability. And they are often even used to improve the tone of guitars which have built in preamps.

The Fishman Platinum Stage model has full ability to adjust tone three ways (with sweepable midrange), boost the output, plus set the input and output volumes individually. It also has ground lift, and low frequency attenuation and it has ¼" in/out and XLR out. This little beauty sells for only $150 (one of the best deals for a preamp/DI around).


I hope this helps…

[lkingston]

What kind of pickup system are you using? Is it active (powered by a battery) or passive (no battery)? The general rule of thumb is if it is an active pickup, use a passive DI box. If your pickup is passive use an active DI. For example, most factory pickups with an under-saddle pickup and a 9v battery should use a passive DI. With a K&K after-market pickup, use an active DI.

Now once you've decided on active or passive, the next thing to be aware of is this. Active DIs have all sorts of circuitry. The passive DI is just a box and a transformer. The thing is that a good transformer sounds way better than a cheap transformer and the good ones are really expensive. On the other hand, the expensive and cheap active DIs sound about the same.

I use a really inexpensive Samson MDA-1 active DI. I think it was about $30 and it sounds great. On the other hand I use a Radial passive DI and it costs well over $100. You need a good transformer. It doesn't need to be a Jensen, but it needs to be good. Unlike the active DIs, you can hear the difference.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by lkingston

What kind of pickup system are you using? Is it active (powered by a battery) or passive (no battery)? The general rule of thumb is if it is an active pickup, use a passive DI box. If your pickup is passive use an active DI. For example, most factory pickups with an under-saddle pickup and a 9v battery should use a passive DI. With a K&K after-market pickup, use an active DI.

Now once you've decided on active or passive, the next thing to be aware of is this. Active DIs have all sorts of circuitry. The passive DI is just a box and a transformer. The thing is that a good transformer sounds way better than a cheap transformer and the good ones are really expensive. On the other hand, the expensive and cheap active DIs sound about the same.

I use a really inexpensive Samson MDA-1 active DI. I think it was about $30 and it sounds great. On the other hand I use a Radial passive DI and it costs well over $100. You need a good transformer. It doesn't need to be a Jensen, but it needs to be good. Unlike the active DIs, you can hear the difference.

Hi lk…

Most of us don't play in lab conditions, and I don't find a difference through PA systems or in stage amps between the cheapest dedicated DI boxes, and the $150 ones.

Having come from pre-XLR era (Shure microphones which had screw on connectors and were high impedance), I've moved from home made (hand wired) impedance boxes, Radio Shack ¼" female to XLR tubes, and primitive DI boxes which still only broke out the ¼" to a passthrough with XLR on the other end.

I own passive and active, inexpensive and expensive DI boxes…and the factor which determines my use when doing sound for myself or others is not brand, nor price, but stage layout, space and the needs of the sound crew.

When we are playing live, I cannot hear any difference in the mix (whether playing solo or band) between the DI boxes. If I were traveling full-time, then I'd probably own a more expensive one just because of the rigors of planes, trains and busses (and roadies). In nearly 55 years of playing guitar, I've never had a DI go bad.

When we travel in our RV, I carry my Voyage-Air (which has a K&K Trinity rig) and a basic K&K belt pack two channel preamp and a $25 Aluminum housed Rolls DB25 Matchbox Direct Box/Pad/Ground Lift - because it's clean, small, can be attenuated, has ground lift and FITS IN THE VOYAGE-AIR BACKPACK. It's 1½"X1½"X2½" and the attenuation is done via a volume knob instead of a switch.

And for church I run my Olson into my Raven PMB…¼" out to a Rolls similar to the DB25 (it's older brother I've had for about 15 years) which is about 1"X1"X2½". Again, aluminum housed, quiet, doesn't affect tone, and fits in my guitar case pick drawer.

I've never had a sound tech switch them out with their more expensive DIs, nor even question my use of them. They are simple, reliable, small, and just work.

Not trying to argue, just being practical from an average local guitar player's perspective.

[Photojeep]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

…The Fishman Platinum Stage model has full ability to adjust tone three ways (with sweepable midrange), boost the output, plus set the input and output volumes individually. It also has ground lift, and low frequency attenuation and it has ¼" in/out and XLR out. This little beauty sells for only $150 (one of the best deals for a preamp/DI around).


I hope this helps…

I looked up this DI and have a silly question:

Where does this go? Does it go on a pedalboard? Or does it clip to your belt or maybe clip to your strap?

I know I'm being dense but I can't quite figure out how one would actually use it (aside from plugging in your guitar and then to your PA).

Physically, where does it go?

Thanks,
PJ

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Photojeep

I looked up this DI and have a silly question:

Where does this go? Does it go on a pedalboard? Or does it clip to your belt or maybe clip to your strap?

I know I'm being dense but I can't quite figure out how one would actually use it (aside from plugging in your guitar and then to your PA).

Physically, where does it go?

Thanks,
PJ

The unit has a square sort of rubbish frame on its bottom (the side opposite the side with the EQ controls). So it can rest on that on the floor or on an amp or small gig table, etc.. It could also go on a pedalboard, but you'd have to take off the resting frame to add velcro if that's what you use to attach your pedals. That square frame also has a belt clip in the middle of it, so you could wear it like that.

It's a terrific little unit, just as Larry says. The only drawback to it, from my perspective, is the fact that the boost is a button that you have to activate by hand. When I'm using a boost on stage, I prefer to be able to control it with a foot switch, so I can switch it on and off on the fly without having to take my hand off of the instrument. How important that is to you will depend on how (and if) you will be using the boost.

Louis

[Photojeep]

Thank you Louis!

I thought I saw a belt clip but I wasn't sure. Not to mention it seems like it would be really inconvenient to have it clipped to a belt and having to deal with clipping it on and unclipping it and dealing with dual cables, etc. But of course, everyone does things differently.

I appreciate your explanation!

PJ

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Photojeep

Thank you Louis!

I thought I saw a belt clip but I wasn't sure. Not to mention it seems like it would be really inconvenient to have it clipped to a belt and having to deal with clipping it on and unclipping it and dealing with dual cables, etc. But of course, everyone does things differently.

I appreciate your explanation!

PJ

You're welcome! In this short unboxing vide, you can see clearly what I describe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhTzMTuKSvY

Louis

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Photojeep

I looked up this DI and have a silly question:

Where does this go? Does it go on a pedalboard? Or does it clip to your belt or maybe clip to your strap?

I know I'm being dense but I can't quite figure out how one would actually use it (aside from plugging in your guitar and then to your PA).

Physically, where does it go?

Thanks,
PJ

Hi PJ…

A direct box IS intended to plug the guitar into last thing before it's sent to the PA or amp (or both).

I generally clamp my preamp tray on my mic stand, and set the preamp on it. Then I drop a short ¼" cable from the preamp to the direct box which is directly below the preamp on the floor at the base of the mic stand (where I already route the mic cable). I don't use effects, and I have at times given a direct feed to the PA-board from the XLR in my preamp.

DIs are very flexible…and it's the last output in my chain which can then be sent to the amp/PA-board simultaneously, and it's last so it converts the signal to the proper impedance.

I've never dreamed of wearing a preamp or di box. But then I've never gone wireless which would kind of suggest that positioning, but would totally eliminate a stage DI box since that would have to be positioned at the receiver. I've run them in front of me on the floor, behind me on the floor, or sitting on top of my acoustic amp.