Inverter/battery for AER compact 60?

[bflatsharp9]

Originally Posted by printer2

Cheaper to put an off the shelf transformer in that operates at one voltage rather than putting in a custom transformer that is dual voltage. If someone is making 100,000 of something then a custom transformer might be cost effective if they are selling to different markets.

I emailed the company asking what voltage the amp runs at in case the OP wanted to run it directly off of the battery without an inverter. They have not replied so far.

Thanks for emailing AER, Please let me know .....

[printer2]

Originally Posted by bflatsharp9

Apparently the power draw from my Euro 230V, 30 watt AER amplifier is 500mA.

I seen this 12V 9800mA Li-Ion battery on Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiC-5V-9V-12...item27e0c6cc8c

From Hong Kong for only 59 dollars, In the discription they say this:

*Important Notice:
These batteries are designed for low current applications, such as powering digital cameras, MP3 players and other small consumer electronics, and small groups of LED lights where the current (ampere) requirement is 500mA (6 watts) or less.

Could someone please help me to understand if this battery will work for my amp and how long i could expect it to run on one charge.

Thanks in advance
Bb

Your amp wants 230V (which is like water pressure in a hose) and 500 mA, or half an amp (the volume of water coming out of a hose). Now if you take the voltage and multiply it by the current you get the watts to run the amp. So 230V x 0.5A = 115 Watts.

Now say the battery in the ad puts out 12V and it can deliver 0.5A, 12V x 0.5A = 6 Watts. You would need 20 of those batteries to run the amp. Might be able to get 5-10% off if you buy that many.

[bflatsharp9]

Originally Posted by printer2

Your amp wants 230V (which is like water pressure in a hose) and 500 mA, or half an amp (the volume of water coming out of a hose). Now if you take the voltage and multiply it by the current you get the watts to run the amp. So 230V x 0.5A = 115 Watts.

Now say the battery in the ad puts out 12V and it can deliver 0.5A, 12V x 0.5A = 6 Watts. You would need 20 of those batteries to run the amp. Might be able to get 5-10% off if you buy that many.

Thanks for that

Would you please be so kind as to help me to understand what battery I would need to run this amp for 4-5 hours on one charge?

[zhunter]

http://www.streetmusician.co.uk/inverters/

http://www.streetmusician.co.uk/batteryguide/

These links should help.

hunter

And this one:

http://www.streetmusician.co.uk/batterycalculation/

[jbourke]

Hi all, I'm looking to make my Compact 60 portable and was wondering if a lithium power bank could replace a deep cycle battery.

This one here is 50800mAh 12V. Given the batteries in the Compact Mobile are x2 12000mAh 6V should I get roughly twice the power time?

Cheers!

[Mandobart]

I put together an inverter to power my Carvin AG300 earlier this year. I have a solid background in electronics thanks to my 30+ years as an electronics tech, engineer and operator on submarine and commercial power plants. You need some info and experience that is not readily available in one easy place by searching the net. It would take a long post to spell out everything, but here are a few things you need to know.

The relationship between voltage, current and power is pretty simple. The reality of AC power is a little more complex. There is true power, apparent power and reactive power. For simplicity here I'll treat it all the same. If your amplifier draws 0.5 A when suplied at a nominal 240 VAC to supply a total 120 W , it would draw twice that if supplied by 120 VAC, 1.0 A. (240 x .5 = 120 and 120 x 1.0 = 120). If you try to power this amp off a 12 VDC battery thru an inverter the battery has to supply at least 10 A (DC) if we assume the inverter is 100% efficient producing AC power from a battery (and we all know it's not). 12 x 10 = 120.

If you want to run an inverter (and you really should go with pure sine wave, not modified) off a 12 volt deep cycle battery you should know they all have a low battery input voltage cutoff at 10 to 11 VDC. So you can't extract every amp-hour out of your battery - the inverter will shut down first. If you want to play your amplifier off the inverter for two hours that will take 20 amp-hours from your battery (at least, remember we're still pretending it's 100 % efficient). In order to supply 20 amp-hrs without dropping battery volts below the inverter shutdown point a good thumbrule is to double the battery capacity. So you need at least a 40 amp-hour battery to run your amplifier off a perfect inverter for 2 hours. I recommend 12 volt batteries over others because there is a huge selection and your system will be compatible with automotive, RV, marine products, including the growing consumer grade solar systems.

For my Carvin, I've found I can run it for about 8 hours at normal performance levels off a 200 W pure sine wave inverter powered off a 35 amp-hour sealed lead acid deep cycle battery. The inverter unit I put together weighs about 30 lbs.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

I put together an inverter to power my Carvin AG300 earlier this year. I have a solid background in electronics thanks to my 30+ years as an electronics tech, engineer and operator on submarine and commercial power plants. You need some info and experience that is not readily available in one easy place by searching the net. It would take a long post to spell out everything, but here are a few things you need to know.

The relationship between voltage, current and power is pretty simple. The reality of AC power is a little more complex. There is true power, apparent power and reactive power. For simplicity here I'll treat it all the same. If your amplifier draws 0.5 A when suplied at a nominal 240 VAC to supply a total 120 W , it would draw twice that if supplied by 120 VAC, 1.0 A. (240 x .5 = 120 and 120 x 1.0 = 120). If you try to power this amp off a 12 VDC battery thru an inverter the battery has to supply at least 10 A (DC) if we assume the inverter is 100% efficient producing AC power from a battery (and we all know it's not). 12 x 10 = 120.

If you want to run an inverter (and you really should go with pure sine wave, not modified) off a 12 volt deep cycle battery you should know they all have a low battery input voltage cutoff at 10 to 11 VDC. So you can't extract every amp-hour out of your battery - the inverter will shut down first. If you want to play your amplifier off the inverter for two hours that will take 20 amp-hours from your battery (at least, remember we're still pretending it's 100 % efficient). In order to supply 20 amp-hrs without dropping battery volts below the inverter shutdown point a good thumbrule is to double the battery capacity. So you need at least a 40 amp-hour battery to run your amplifier off a perfect inverter for 2 hours. I recommend 12 volt batteries over others because there is a huge selection and your system will be compatible with automotive, RV, marine products, including the growing consumer grade solar systems.

For my Carvin, I've found I can run it for about 8 hours at normal performance levels off a 200 W pure sine wave inverter powered off a 35 amp-hour sealed lead acid deep cycle battery. The inverter unit I put together weighs about 30 lbs.

Excellent post. I think for folks who don't have a background in engineering or electronics, it makes sense to purchase a battery ready system like the Carvin S600B. I'm an engineer, and even I don't have the patience for making my own. :-)

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by bflatsharp9

Hello again,

I'm in NYC and looking to buy an inverter to power my AER 60 amplifier (230v), the last time I tried a MSW 300w inverter there was a loud buzz, after reading more on this topic I wonder if the buzz was caused by the battery (12v 7a) perhaps I need a deep cycle battery?

I met a busker in Paris who was using a MSW inverter with a Lithium Ion battery to power his AER 60, it was the best light weight busking set up in ever seen but unfortunately I lost his email to ask him where he got the battery, I do remember him telling me is cost 300e, would be worth it considering I have a shoulder issue from schlepping heavy gear around.

Does anyone out there have experience using Lithium batteries ? Also can anyone suggest where I could pick up a good inverter while I'm in NYC ? (EU prices are much higher)
Bb

The best place to pick up a known quality inverter (220v, I'm assuming) on demand, is Amazon.

The buzzing noise was almost surely inverter related but could have been exacerbated by a drawn down battery forcing the inverter to Brown out /voltage drop to 100 or so.

Lithium bAtteries can be bought a number of ways but they're prohibitively expensive new. EBay can save you a ton of money there, but it's always a gamble still.

I've read through a number of the amp hour recommendations on the thread and they aren't reflecting the different discharge curve of lithium cells, which are happily drawn down to 20% capacity before hitting the inverters voltage cut off point, rather than 50% for lead acid. Lithium ah ratings are almost halved runtime for runtime.

I busk in NYC and use 12v/40ah lithium batteries through a 300w pure sine inverter, to a Fishman Loudbox Mini (and various other amps. No AER's though) and I get 14 hours at higher levels. There's a British guy here named Mr. Blues who uses an AER C40 (I think, might be a 60) and he runs it through a golf cart lithium battery set. I believe it's a 20ah and he gets over 10 hours, if I remember correctly.

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by bflatsharp9

Apparently the power draw from my Euro 230V, 30 watt AER amplifier is 500mA.

I seen this 12V 9800mA Li-Ion battery on Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiC-5V-9V-12...item27e0c6cc8c

From Hong Kong for only 59 dollars, In the discription they say this:

*Important Notice:
These batteries are designed for low current applications, such as powering digital cameras, MP3 players and other small consumer electronics, and small groups of LED lights where the current (ampere) requirement is 500mA (6 watts) or less.

Could someone please help me to understand if this battery will work for my amp and how long i could expect it to run on one charge.

Thanks in advance
Bb

The lithium batteries themselves, used in this pack are probably fine to power your inverter with but the wire gauges used in its build limit the power it can safely transfer. When you're looking a lithium packs look for 8 gauge or larger connect wires and bus bars as you'll be needing that kind of power transfer. High gauge/small wire packs will probably catch fire on you eventually. If the wiring and/or the battery itself, gets hot during use then you'll know you need to get a larger cable run (smaller gauge). Lithium battery fires are very dangerous, for both the heat they produce and the toxic smoke they'll emit. Try to never use a battery that might catch fire, especially when you're charging it. If you're at the local coffee shop, charging your battery without a care and it happens to go up, I can't imagine the damage that would cause.

As for the earlier comment about special chargers, it's true that lithium ion does require a specific and delicate charge routine (one of many, depending upon the exact chemistry of the cells). The most used solution to that is a BMS board, which you will require in your pack. It works by dividing your pack into each parallel run and automatically, during charging, monitor/balance charge each bank until they match voltages. Battery management system boards make it possible to charge with a typical 12v auto battery charger but do make sure it's at least a three stage charger.

Lithium batteries come in a few form factors with two, cell and flat packet, being the two major ones. Flat packet lithium cells, though they're easier to conform to thin/flat shapes, which makes them very useful for cell phones and the like, are not nearly as robust, long lasting or reliable over time as 18650 and/or 22650 cells are. I'd suggest that you only buy cell based packs. People who mod electric bicycles and build from Tesla automotive battery sleds are the biggest resources I've seen for 18650 based packs and are busting at the seams with great info about them, charging and BMS boards (They make their own packs and so know more than your average user).

[dannyg1]

The golf cart battery MrBlues uses:

http://littlemiraclebattery.co.uk/li...y#.V8iH3obD8m8

It aeems that this, the '18 hole' version, is not the correct model. He's using the '36 hole' version that's 22ah, rather than 16.

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by bflatsharp9

Apparently the power draw from my Euro 230V, 30 watt AER amplifier is 500mA.

This photo seems to say that the compact 60 draws 120 watts.

http://www.eplay.sk/pictures/product...cture_7037.jpg

[Mr Blues]

I use the Little Miracle golf cart lithium battery's. They are 22amh. Very light weight and mine last hours with my AER Compact 60/3.
I use Maplins 300 watt inverter.

The little Miracle cost around £220.
There is also Ultra Max lithium battery same 22 amh. You can get that for £ 170 on amazon.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

This photo seems to say that the compact 60 draws 120 watts.

http://www.eplay.sk/pictures/product...cture_7037.jpg

120 W divided by 230 V = 0.521 A or 521 mA, about 500 mA. Actual current will depend on actual line voltage. Here in the US it varies from ~110 to ~ 120 VAC.

[dannyg1]

A quick additional point of information for the OP:

If you insist on buying a 220v inverter in NYC there are two places I'd look. First, B+H photo will probably have a good selection of them and second, Canal street electronics stores will probably have a slew of the cheaper ones. Try to pick five or six models that'll fit the bill, know exactly what they look like and cost on Amazon and shop carefully.

[dannyg1]

Another thing. It's possible that you were trying to power your amp from a 120v inverter and that might be why you were experiencing trouble (Though I wonder if the amp would even make sound if it's so starved for power).

In any event, in order to run the amp off of a 120v inverter you'd need a heavy duty voltage converter/regulator like this:

http://powerbright.com/vc200.html