855 Braced & Intonated like an LKSM

[Lonesome Picker]

I wonder if anyone here has played, seen or knows of anyone who has a Taylor 855 that has been braced and intonated like an LKSM? - OR - has played/seen an LKSM with the nice features that come with an 855. Of course this would not really be an LKSM in the traditional sense. I think it would be a nice combination as many 12 stringers paly their 12's tuned down a step or more.

I wonder what which configuration would cost less to custom order (at MSRP?

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Ron
Lonesome Picker (NC)

[Lonesome Picker]

Mea Kulpa on the typo: Should read Play not Paly!

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Ron
Lonesome Picker (NC)

[MarkB]

I have an 855, and I experimented with heavier-gauge strings for a while. The short answer to the question "can you string it like a LKSM" is "Yes, you can do it, but you probably wouldn't want to." At least, that was my conclusion. I've since come full circle and now use standard light-gauge strings tuned to pitch.

A friend of mine (and a fellow Kottke fan) who has a student-level 12 string started me on this path when he tried a set of "Light" gauge Martin 12s (with a .54 on the bottom, I'm not sure I would consider that "light"). He reported liking the sound, although the extra tension required him to tune down at least a full step. (He has since switched back to standard "light" gauges.) So I decided to give it a try after hearing his comments, and after reading an interview by LK where he said that he always preferred tuning down 12-string guitars.

After installing a set of the "light" Martins I quickly realized the guitar needed a setup to cure some minor intonation problems caused by the drastic string change. Upon visiting my favorite local shop, a long discussion ensued about the merits of such a setup, and we placed a call to the Taylor office for a second opinion.

Taylor strongly recommended NOT using heavier strings on the 855 even if you are tuning down, as they felt that this puts too much tension on the headstock and that doing so over a long period of time could warp the neck. We respectfully disagreed with their advice (after all, the tension is relative to the pitch you're tuning to), but just to be safe we put together a custom set with a .49 on the bottom and .11's on the top, replacing the Martins. This way I could get a little more bass, but as long as I tuned down, I wouldn't have to worry about any long-term damage.

I eventually switched back to standard strings tuned to pitch, as my ears like the way the 855 sounds with them - the heavier strings just didn't have the "sparkle" that I prefer. I frequently like to play stuff on my 815ce and switch over to the 855 for a different take on the sound. Most of what I'm playing these days is at pitch or in D, and I'm not yet at a level where I can tackle any of Leo's complicated tunes so I don't really have a need to tune down.

Also, those heavier gauges for 12-strings are hard to come by - I had to order them via the Net because none of my local shops carry them. And I found that a custom set, or a set of high-quality John Pearse strings are significantly more expensive than a standard light-gauge set - as much as double! So for me, a "standard" setup works well whether I'm fingerpicking, or especially if I use a pick (which is seldom) which really seems to make it come alive.

I saw another post of yours where you were wondering whether to get an 855 or an LKSM. If you are still considering your options, my humble advice would be to get the LKSM if you prefer tuning down, because that's what it was made for. If you want a guitar that looks a little fancier (and I, too prefer the looks of the 855 to the LKSM) and you tune down only occasionally, you might do better with an 855 with a slightly taller setup. This will allow you to tune down when you want but avoid the extra cost of those special-order strings.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

-Mark

[Lonesome Picker]

Hey Mark,

Thanks for your comments re your experience with tuning down your 855. I can relate to your thoughts and experiences here. I am almost of the opinion that I will have to have 2 12 strings. I am increasingly moving toward ordering an LKSM (braced and intonated for mediums) with "enhancements" like an Engleman top, and the appointments of the 855 to dress it up a bit. I am just not sure whether to go for the Rosewood or not. As the custom shop will be "open for business" in 2002, Taylor should be able to handle the order. I just don;t want to wait until Christmas to get it.

Like you I have alos done a lot of experimenting with the larger gauges, including an assortment of heavier gauges, on my Breedlove 12 string (which could handle the tension), but the intonation issue really frustrated me (playing open position at higher frets). The picking was an issue too. It was a little "unnatural" picking such large heavy gauge base strings (58's!). I tried newtones from Scotland, a special order for sure, JP's, Martin's etc.. I liked the sound of C# tuning, but the guitar just wasn't ideally suited for it. I am of the opinion now that the only one that is "properly suited" to "downtuning", is the LKSM. In as much as I often play tuned down, I may just as well order the LKSM with the enbhancements, and keep a second 12 handy that is tuned to concert but "capo tuned" to the 5th fret, as that is where I play a lot when I play harmony with others.

Thanks Mark, great info..

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Ron
Lonesome Picker (NC)

[cpmusic]

Originally posted by MarkB
Taylor strongly recommended NOT using heavier strings on the 855 even if you are tuning down, as they felt that this puts too much tension on the headstock and that doing so over a long period of time could warp the neck.

I find this curious, since I thought the neck and headstock of an LKSM were the same as those of the other 12-strings. Of course, if they make the LKSM's neck and headstock stronger, then the recommendation makes sense.

BTW, I've heard (don't know for sure) that the LKSM's braces are scalloped, while the other 12s all have standard braces. This could explain why the LKSM responds better to lower tuning, but it would also suggest that mediums at lower tuning (well, C# anyway) don't exert more tension than lights at concert pitch. I'm no expert though, and I'd trust the folks at Taylor enough to follow their advice.

BTW2, I've heard that Gore is now making Elixirs in a 12-string medium gauge set, which should make it easier for people to buy heavier sets -- assuming, of course, that you like Elixirs!

[Lonesome Picker]

There seems to be some conflicting reports out there on whether the Taylor can handle the medium gauge strings tuned down. Maybe it is a question of how far you tune down. I think most who do tune down at least a step.

I am really throwing my hands up on this. I am going to order an LKSM with a few enhancements/modifications. Of course I am assuming that the Taylor Custom shop is open now and will add the enhancements to the LKSM. At this point, I think it will be the standard LKSM with the following exceptions.

1. Back & Sides: Indian Rosewood, instead of Mahogany
2. Soundhole Rosette: Abalone instead of wood & plastic
3. Fretboard Inlay: Pearl "Progressive Diamonds" instead of "none"
4. Engleman Spruce top instead of the Sitka Spruce

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Ron
Lonesome Picker (NC)

[MarkB]

Hi Ron-

I think you're making a good call with the LKSM. Hopefully the Custom Shop will be able to strike the balance you're searching between setup and cosmetics. If they can, you'll have a very special and beautiful instrument. Keep us posted, and good luck!

-Mark