Pinkie Stabilization?

[lpa53]

For all my 40 years of guitar playing, except when playing rhythm in a band in high school, when picking I've always stabilized my picking hand with my pinkie on the guitar's top. Just this last week I had my first lesson with a well-known fingerstylist in the area (great guy, too) and, as I expected, he mentioned the down-pinkie as something that can restrict my progress.

While I know this is bad form in classical guitar, is it also the case in steel-string fingerstyle? Are there not any good guitarists who have this "bad habit"? I'm working on not to using the anchor but so far the biggest thing I notice is not being able to attack heavily when I want to.

The teacher alo suggested I bring my thumb more forward of my other fingers, again more in the classical vein. One of the things making this easier fo him was his positioning of his SCGC guitar in a somewhat classical position, with the hollow between the bouts resting on his left knee (he's a righty, of course). I believe his Santa Cruz is a Firefly, since he mentioned it had a short scale and cedar top, but it had a cutaway so I'm not sure. It had a gorgeous mellow tone. But the thing it that its body shape makes the "classical position easier than with my dreadnought, which keeps slipping around!

Any suggestions as to how I can overcome these issues? Like buy a Firefly? Don't I wish ...

[Jeff M]

Lots of great fingerstyle players anchor their pinky.
Stefan Grossman recommends people anchor it.

It just depends what you are comfortable with.

Re; the thumb...are you having problems reaching strings with it? Is it interfering with your playing? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. If it gets to the point where it does..then adjust.

Everybody is shaped differently. This includes our hands.
Experiment...but in the end, play with what is comfortable for you.

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by Jeff M

Lots of great fingerstyle players anchor their pinky.
Stefan Grossman recommends people anchor it.

It just depends what you are comfortable with.

Re; the thumb...are you having problems reaching strings with it? Is it interfering with your playing? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. If it gets to the point where it does..then adjust.

Everybody is shaped differently. This includes our hands.
Experiment...but in the end, play with what is comfortable for you.

Thanks for that link, Jeff. It makes me feel better about what I do. I think what the teacher was saying about my thumb is that when I strike with it, the followthrough tends to move inward and hit the other fingers, which it does. I looked at some other Grossman videos and found this one which shows what I believe the teacher is looking for, keeping the thumb flatter on the followthough, not bending the knuckle too much.

I suppose it never hurts to try something different and I'll give it a shot - at least during the lessons!

[unimogbert]

..................................

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by unimogbert

Paul,

Larry (ljguitar) showed me his NeckUp which he uses on everything he plays when we met in the Colorado group get together.

I bought one for myself. It's a great help at keeping the neck of the guitar elevated to achieve better ergonomics and something closer to the classical position.

I've seen those spoken of before on threads and was actually thinking about that just the other day.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by lpa53

...While I know this is bad form in classical guitar, is it also the case in steel-string fingerstyle?

Hi Ipa...
If having the pinky touch the top is wrong, then there are some seriously good players who place their pinky on the top who are playing all-wrong...including...

• Tommy Emmanuel
• Laurence Juber
• Chet Atkins
• Pat Donohue
• Pete Huttlinger
• Merle Travis
• Doc Watson
• Doyle Dykes
• Al Petteway
• Thom Bresh
• Martin Taylor
• Tuck Andress

As a teacher, & player, as long as a person is using the pinky as a placement tool and not putting pressure on it (touching down versus leaning on it) it doesn't seem to make any difference on their capability as players.

For me touching down the pinky is much like the home row of keys used to get my hands back to the correct place on the typing keyboard. It keeps my playing hand oriented properly in relation to the soundhole.

It doesn't live there and I never put pressure on it. In fact it lifts off the top regularly when plucking or strumming.

Granted there are players who anchor or plant and lean on the pinky, and that would seem to me that it could very well inhibit proper angling and playing with the plucking/strumming hand.

[banpreso]

i never find it necessary to achor down the pinky.

and also, think about it, if you ever need your i, m, and r ringers to pluck the 3 bass strings (sometimes happens), your pinky anchor would be disrupted.

and if you are anchoring down with pressure, that means your hand is not relaxed.

as far as putting the thumb in front of the index finger, you gotta rotate your wrist, then it becomes pretty comfortable. the thing is, if your thumb and index fingers are picking 2 strings right next to each other, you don't want them to run into each other. when the thumb is in front and index in the back, they'll overlap eachother.

if you practice for a weeks, i'm sure you can alter your habits more easily than your probably thought.

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by banpreso

i never find it necessary to achor down the pinky.

and also, think about it, if you ever need your i, m, and r ringers to pluck the 3 bass strings (sometimes happens), your pinky anchor would be disrupted.

and if you are anchoring down with pressure, that means your hand is not relaxed.

as far as putting the thumb in front of the index finger, you gotta rotate your wrist, then it becomes pretty comfortable. the thing is, if your thumb and index fingers are picking 2 strings right next to each other, you don't want them to run into each other. when the thumb is in front and index in the back, they'll overlap eachother.

if you practice for a weeks, i'm sure you can alter your habits more easily than your probably thought.

I do experience fatigue in the pinkie at times so I do know it affects me. The difficult part to accept is that, with the fingerpicking I've done all my life - JT, Simon, Don Mclean - I've just never had a problem. And never found a need to pluck bass strings with anything other than the thumb either, but then that can just reflect my limited repertoire. I am working on the pinkie thing, though - the wrist rotation for the thumb? - that'll be harder.

[Brian W.]

Originally Posted by lpa53

While I know this is bad form in classical guitar, is it also the case in steel-string fingerstyle? Are there not any good guitarists who have this "bad habit"? I'm working on not to using the anchor but so far the biggest thing I notice is not being able to attack heavily when I want to.

I don’t consider pinky planting a bad habit, just different. I’ve tried it, but it feels awkward to me. I guess mainly because I use my ring finger quite a bit. I’ll often plant my palm on the other side of strings to get a flat wrist angle for staccato and palm muting. Anchoring is a useful technique imo, although the arched wrist makes for a good home position.

[Herb Hunter]

I'm not a guitar teacher but f I were teaching a beginner to play, I would discourage them from resting their right little finger on the guitar. Whether one should work to discontinue the habit once ingrained depends on whether that habit prevents one from expertly executing a desired technique.

I don't recall observing Doyle Dykes or Tommy Emmanuel anchoring their pinkies but that doesn't mean they don't. I'll be watching both play this week, possibly both of them on stage at the same time, and I'll be making it a point to notice if they are pinky anchorers or not.

[David Hilyard]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I'm not a guitar teacher but f I were teaching a beginner to play, I would discourage them from resting their right little finger on the guitar. Whether one should work to discontinue the habit once ingrained depends on whether that habit prevents one from expertly executing a desired technique.

I don't recall observing Doyle Dykes or Tommy Emmanuel anchoring their pinkies but that doesn't mean they don't. I'll be watching both play this week, possibly both of them on stage at the same time, and I'll be making it a point to notice if they are pinky anchorers or not.

Tommy anchors and says if you want to play like him, then you better anchor. I tried it, and I still don't play like him. He was wrong.

He'll probably play this tune at CAAS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogc9KqjBsZo

Doyle, anchoring off and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O49uB...eature=related

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by David Hilyard

Tommy anchors and says if you want to play like him, then you better anchor. I tried it, and I still don't play like him. He was wrong.

He'll probably play this tune at CAAS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogc9KqjBsZo

Doyle, anchoring off and on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O49uB...eature=related

Thanks for the clips. Now I'll be able to sit back and enjoy their performances in the next few days without having to scrutinize their right hand pinkies.

[Neal]

I don't see Tommy "anchoring" the pinky, unless I was just dazzled by the general brilliance of his playing.. he is using it as a guide in some passages.

As Larry says above, and I'll paraprase, is Anchoring and Planting are not optimal. Letting the pinky be a guide is different. Anchoring and planting are, well, permanent, and that could affect the dynamics of your playing. Some do it to great affect, others not. If you're learning from a teacher, and he instructs you to not do that, don't. Or find a teacher that's not so picky.

You can do it, it's just practice after all. I struggled with it for years until I found a teacher that insisted I not "plant"(planting and anchoring suggest a long term stay), and I followed the advice.

I don't plant on the uke anymore either, that was a tough one. I do brush, and use my fingers, pinky included, as a guide on ocassion.

You'll find you can obtain a better dynamic.

[David Hilyard]

Originally Posted by Neal

I don't see Tommy "anchoring" the pinky, unless I was just dazzled by the general brilliance of his playing.. he is using it as a guide in some passages.

As Larry says above, and I'll paraprase, is Anchoring and Planting are not optimal. Letting the pinky be a guide is different. Anchoring and planting are, well, permanent, and that could affect the dynamics of your playing. Some do it to great affect, others not. If you're learning from a teacher, and he instructs you to not do that, don't. Or find a teacher that's not so picky.

You can do it, it's just practice after all. I struggled with it for years until I found a teacher that insisted I not "plant"(planting and anchoring suggest a long term stay), and I followed the advice.

I don't plant on the uke anymore either, that was a tough one. I do brush, and use my fingers, pinky included, as a guide on ocassion.

You'll find you can obtain a better dynamic.

A friend of mine, who has taken workshops with Tommy at Jorma Kaukonen's Fur Peace Ranch said he tells you to use the pinky to anchor. My friend resisted during the workshop and Tommy said "Look, if you want to learn how to play like I play, you need to anchor". Of course, the way Tommy plays, he's all over the place and doesn't keep his hand glued there, but he does use a pinky anchor when it's useful to him. He calls it "anchoring".

He teaches it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45vrY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue3-y...eature=related

[Neal]

By gosh he does! Just think how good he'd be if he learned the proper way!

Watching Tommy's style, it's obvious he has his own, but those basic boom-chicks are done as easily without planting. I, of course, am no Tommy E.