K&K Pure Mini on a T5z?

[subby]

I'm trying to get a much more acoustic tone out of my T5z than the included position 1 acoustic tone is capable of producing.

It seems like the dtar under saddle with the mama bear preamp is a solution a couple people have mentioned, but I'm considering just tossing a K&K pure mini under the bridge plate and calling it a day?

Any thoughts on either? In both cases, I'd run the second pickup input through the second strap pin hole.

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by subby

I'm trying to get a much more acoustic tone out of my T5z than the included position 1 acoustic tone is capable of producing.

It seems like the dtar under saddle with the mama bear preamp is a solution a couple people have mentioned, but I'm considering just tossing a K&K pure mini under the saddle and calling it a day?

Any thoughts on either? In both cases, I'd run the second pickup input through the second strap pin hole.

I presume you mean under the bridge plate...

[subby]

Originally Posted by pieterh

I presume you mean under the bridge plate...

Yeah sorry. I'll go ahead and update that.

[dnf777]

It wont hurt to try, except the end pin. But IMO, i cant see a K&K creating an acoustic tone that isnt there to begin with. Im a big fan of the minis, having installed several in my own builds. (So much easier to install BEFORE glueing the top on!). I would think your answer lies with an imaging pre-amp, like a spectrum aura pedal or even a tone dexter (with some creative mapping). The mini is a pretty faithful reproducer of tone, but I dont think it can create it, if that makes sense.

[jonfields45]

This has been done before (SBT in a T5z) and I think you might find an AGF thread if you search for it. A T5z might not sound like much of an acoustic, but a K&K is not picking up what we hear but rather how the bridge plate is bending. If the bending is similar to a decent acoustic, then it will sound good.

[jseth]

When I owned one of the first T5's, I did not buy it for the acoustic "tone"... more for the Rupert Never co-designed preamp and electronics...

I had that guitar for nearly 15 years, and I just loved it! Learned a lot about it, especially about those active tone and volume controls... here's a tip for ya: do NOT treat them like "normal bass, treble controls, because they really, really are not normal!

Unless they changed those electronics in the T5z (I think maybe they got rid of the body sensor?), those pots will still function as designed... and the way they're designed is to create a big effect with little movement... so just nudge 'em, one way or the other and try to find a sweet spot.

Another thing is they are counter-intuitive (at least for a long time electric player and gigger). I wante to get a tone like ... Jim Hall, or Pat Metheny (sans chorus); you know that sweet old-time jazz hollowbody sound. So, I jacked the treble down and raised the bass... no good... finally went to a Taylor Roadshow thingamabob and talked with the player they had there...

He just said " imagine that there are three tone pots, except the mids are fixed... want to have more mids? LOWER the treble and bass slightly... ! Inconceivable!!!

Worked like a charm... and from then on, I started to fully understand what those things can do...

If I wanted to get the best acoustic amplified tone out of my T5? I'd put a set of actual acoustic strings on it, probably medium gauge because the guitar is shorter in scale than any of my acoustics... ~24 3/4"? Definitely would not have an unwound third string.

Next thing would have been to get the model with the plain-Jane spruce top, as it resonated and actually sounded much louder (still quiet unplugged) than the sweet maple top I got with mine...

And then I'd work with it a bunch...

I do have a friend who put a UST (Fishman) under the saddle of his T5; had the jack in one of the two strap lock buttons, had the v and t control just at the edge of the lower F hole... very sanitary (except when he had both jacks plugged in!), and it sounded very workable on it's own... but coupled with the main output, it sounded darned good as an acoustic!

No fancy UST, just a regular old Fishman Matrix Acoustic Natural...

[dcopper]

I have one of the first run T5 guitars and have had several others and a T5z.
I put a K&K mini in the T5 and the T5z. They do a great job to get you a more acoustic tone, In my T5, I also added an LR Baggs Element active pickup. If I want more of an acoustic sound that cuts through our mix, I use the Element active, but I am a big fan of K&K mini pickups and use it all the time.

The install could not be easier. If you do any kind of active pickup like the Element, you can mount the battery pack to the removable rear panel. The K&K is easy to mount through the rear panel and in my opinion, it is a really good, usable acoustic sound. Taylor helped us out by having two strap buttons that serve as guitar outputs. I do solo, duo and trio work with it regularly and it does well with the K&K.

I have written pretty extensively on this forum about T5 guitars and tone, so there may be older threads where I discuss this. Also, just as a note, I can go directly into my BOSE S! Pro, go through RedEye preamp or HX Stomp (without the amp models) and I get great tone with the K&K pickup. Since I have the same set up in my Taylor 814 and 914, it is an easy switch of guitars.

[dcopper]

I forgot to mention that I use Elixir acoustic strings.

[subby]

Originally Posted by dcopper

I have one of the first run T5 guitars and have had several others and a T5z.
I put a K&K mini in the T5 and the T5z. They do a great job to get you a more acoustic tone, In my T5, I also added an LR Baggs Element active pickup. If I want more of an acoustic sound that cuts through our mix, I use the Element active, but I am a big fan of K&K mini pickups and use it all the time.

The install could not be easier. If you do any kind of active pickup like the Element, you can mount the battery pack to the removable rear panel. The K&K is easy to mount through the rear panel and in my opinion, it is a really good, usable acoustic sound. Taylor helped us out by having two strap buttons that serve as guitar outputs. I do solo, duo and trio work with it regularly and it does well with the K&K.

I have written pretty extensively on this forum about T5 guitars and tone, so there may be older threads where I discuss this. Also, just as a note, I can go directly into my BOSE S! Pro, go through RedEye preamp or HX Stomp (without the amp models) and I get great tone with the K&K pickup. Since I have the same set up in my Taylor 814 and 914, it is an easy switch of guitars.

Hey it's you! Everybody recommends looking you up for this one, so I'm glad you're here.

So a K&K mini with a redeye preamp is probably the most straightforward solution, but the LR Baggs is the more true sound? I believe I've seen you mention the Dtar under saddle running through a mama bear before?

I'm just looking for the most true and full acoustic sound I can get. Thanks!

[subby]

Originally Posted by dcopper

I forgot to mention that I use Elixir acoustic strings.

Sorry to bug you, but I'm itching to get going on this one. Do you mind checking out my follow up question above? Thanks!

[dcopper]

I would go with the K&K pm added to the T5z with the RedEye preamp if you need a preamp. The RedEye is simple and gives you both a boost as well as that treble control, which for me, takes the muddiness out of the K&K.
I think it is very usable acoustic tone.

And happy to help. Sorry I have not been visiting the AGF very much lately. Sort of missed out on a few things.

[subby]

Originally Posted by dcopper

I would go with the K&K pm added to the T5z with the RedEye preamp if you need a preamp. The RedEye is simple and gives you both a boost as well as that treble control, which for me, takes the muddiness out of the K&K.
I think it is very usable acoustic tone.

And happy to help. Sorry I have not been visiting the AGF very much lately. Sort of missed out on a few things.

I'm considering removing the existing Body Sensor pickup and replacing it with the K&K Mini, wiring it directly into the ES1 system. So, position 1 would still be the neck pickup and the body sensor, but the body sensor would be upgraded to the K&K. Any thoughts there? Thanks!

[dcopper]

sorry I did not get back sooner...
Impedance is probably an issue. I personally would not alter the 5 way pickup. Once you understand the guitar, you would be amazed at what great tone you can get out of the T5 alone.
Just my thoughts... FWIW
Davidc