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Old 08-29-2020, 09:01 AM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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Default recording means setting something in stone

So, my stumbling block right now is tempo. I've recorded other albums and years later I think, why did I play this so slow, or why did I play this so fast. Of course there are other "why did" questions, but right now I'm focusing on tempo.
I'm recording with Logic as my DAW, and I know there are ways to slow down or speed up a piece after the fact, but unwanted artifacts enter in.

Any help for getting over this "setting in stone"issue? Thanks.
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:28 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Practice the song until you get it right in your head. Then learn how to use the tap-tempo function of your DAW to figure out the tempo at which you're playing. That will allow you to create and play along to a click track. If you've never played along to a click track, it may takes a few weeks of practice to get used to doing it. It will throw you at first... so much so that you'll swear you will never master the skill. But eventually you will and your recordings will be much closer to what you want them to be.
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Old 08-29-2020, 10:49 AM
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As a trial try recording a song at different tempos so that you can listen back and make a more educated decision. The Beatles did that all the time. It's a creative tool really.
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Old 08-29-2020, 11:58 AM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Practice the song until you get it right in your head. Then learn how to use the tap-tempo function of your DAW to figure out the tempo at which you're playing. That will allow you to create and play along to a click track. If you've never played along to a click track, it may takes a few weeks of practice to get used to doing it. It will throw you at first... so much so that you'll swear you will never master the skill. But eventually you will and your recordings will be much closer to what you want them to be.
Thanks Jim. My issue is I have to decide what I want the tempo to be in the first place.

Quote:
As a trial try recording a song at different tempos so that you can listen back and make a more educated decision. The Beatles did that all the time. It's a creative tool really.
I will do this. Thanks Mr. Jelly. And this just occured to me. I can make a recording, and use Logic to change the tempo a little bit after the fact, just to see if I like it better faster or slower.
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Last edited by KarenB; 08-29-2020 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 08-29-2020, 12:15 PM
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Someone told me a long time ago that a recording is milestone, a snapshot of time. You really should be able to look back at old recordings and feel they aren't good enough, because hopefully you've progressed since then. There's always a tradeoff between waiting and working on a piece to get it perfect, vs recording the way you play it and moving on.

On a more specific note, if tempo is an issue, try playing with a click track. I don't usually use one unless I'm planning to have someone else overdub later, but when I do, I definitely experiment with different tempos to see what feels and sounds best before I lock it in.
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Old 08-29-2020, 12:56 PM
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Some software that just slows or speeds up an existing recording may or may not be all that helpful. Normally you would play a tune
differently depending on tempo. A slower tempo with more emotive, phrasing sensitivity and a faster tempo with a forward driven
steady beat. So depending on how you play the "best" tempo may vary.

Many times I have tried recording something at different tempos with the above type of considerations in mind.
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Old 08-29-2020, 02:39 PM
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Yeah, that's the thing with recordings. They sit there and are objective vs. our sense while we're on the other side of the guitar playing and whatever mood we were in one day. They're unforgiving, so we have to forgive ourselves.

So if you're listening and hearing a tempo issue, that's a warning to try changing things from your first thought as already suggested.

Another thing I often notice (including in my own less than effective playing) is that keeping a good groove can interact with tempo. Something may seem too slow and draggy, but it could work fine at that tempo if the groove was there. And then playing fast but loosing the groove may retain a little impressiveness as you say "wow! I was playing all those notes and changes that fast..." but then one can also find a sense of pulse and groove is lost.

So I'll second the idea that unless you fully trust your first thought on tempo to try it a bit faster and a bit slower and see if one direction or the other improves things before you commit to a take or a final take. I should probably practice more (my playing will testify to that) but when I do, I often try to intentionally vary my tempos so that I can try to improve my abilities to find a groove at a variety of tempos.
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Old 08-29-2020, 07:17 PM
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I'll just add that there is no law that says you can only do one recording.
(Unless you are paying by the hour in a commercial studio. Then your wallet is the law.)

If you think the tempo is off, try re-recording at a better tempo.
You don't have to show anyone the versions you don't like.

Many issues in recording (red light fever, extraneous noises, good performance/crappy sound and vice versa) can be helped when you PRACTICE it.
Just like when you go over a tune and work on rough sections so they become smooth.
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:11 PM
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I'd suggest to consider re-recording things you're not happy with. i do.
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenB View Post
So, .........

Any help for getting over this "setting in stone"issue? Thanks.
I know the feeling well, kinda......... I all call it Sonic Dysmorphia. Nothing I record lives up to what I hear in my head. It could be issues with the tempo, melody lyrics,,vocals, pocket.....

One way I got over this is to say to my self......I will not finish recording this song today but I will take the next several Days/weeks and record several versions of Song “A” at different tempos and with different grooves. Then I move on to song “B” without really listening to all the recordings of song “A”. Then I will come back to song “A” and see what version sits well with me. Most of the time there’s one version that stands out as the best. And still the committee in my head might say you can do it better. But by this time I am pretty darn good at playing the song and I’ve also worked out any melody or lyrical issues. I also find it important to not try to recapture an exact performance. This closes off the potential For that wonderful mistake.

Fortunately home studios allow this option, other wise it could get expensive.
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Old 08-29-2020, 10:19 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenB View Post
So, my stumbling block right now is tempo. I've recorded other albums and years later I think, why did I play this so slow, or why did I play this so fast. Of course there are other "why did" questions, but right now I'm focusing on tempo.
I'm recording with Logic as my DAW, and I know there are ways to slow down or speed up a piece after the fact, but unwanted artifacts enter in.

It's interesting that only a few BPM slower or faster can make a huge difference in how we perceive the finished product.

Any help for getting over this "setting in stone"issue? Thanks.
Good for you for putting the thought into it!

I tend to write a lot of tunes and songs and it does help to have a solid feeling for how your work sounds best before you attempt to record it. My methodology is to play the tune or song enough that you get a chance to play it at different tempos and find what sounds best. I then do a quick n' dirty recording at my preferred tempo. If I'm satisfied I play it back and use the tap tempo on a simple metronome to be able to put an actual BPM number to it. Play the song back at the same time as you trigger the metronome to double-check that the BPM and your recording match. Sometimes you have to adjust your number up or down a bit until the metronome and the recording match.

I do all of this so I can notate the BPM on my lyrics or written notes so I don't have to figure it all out later.

When I sit down to record I set the metronome up and use only the visual indication to set the tempo. If your recording is going to be long you can check your metronome occasionally to make sure you aren't slowing down or speeding up. If your playing is fairly consistent there's no reason you need to lock into an artificially rigid tempo.

I don't use a metronome for normal playing or practice but only as a way to document the BPM tempo. I recently purchased the new Snark Touch metronome which works really well, is easy to see, and has a variety of sounds available. It's also very inexpensive.

AS far as long-term satisfaction with your recording, yes, it's going to seem less than perfect to you over time. If you play a song or tune for a long time you're going to naturally change it up a bit. Re-do it if you later feel you can do a better version.

Last edited by Rudy4; 08-29-2020 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 08-30-2020, 12:04 AM
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I suggest how we play something should reflect how we feel about the music at that time, including tempo, and what we want to convey in recording and sharing the music.

I would be surprised if that meant a piece was always played at an exact speed. We change, our style of playing through influence and development changes.

Set in stone maybe, but only a snapshot of our music at that time. If it concerned me I would (and have) try a different tempo - sometimes an improvement to our ears and at other times a confirmation that there was a reason we did it that way at the time.

I recall a super guitarist on this forum Mau Lao shared a second version he did of an Irish tune that transformed it. I liked both versions.

Enjoy the journey.
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenB View Post
Thanks Jim. My issue is I have to decide what I want the tempo to be in the first place.
You don't mention if you use a click in Logic ?
If not start to do that because that is how you can "decide" what tempo to use
You can just fire up Logic and while in your session/project but before recording , just start playing the tempo first then engage the the click and adjust it until it matches the tempo you think you like and are playing (usually the default setting is 120 BPM) so listen to how that compares to your playing and simply adjust it up or down in tempo until it jells with your playing

Another solution I use when practicing even before I am ready to record is I have a cheap adjustable metronome that reads in BPM and ' Sits right on my recording desk
So I often just play at different tempos until I find what I like then I turn on the Met. and adjust it to match the tempo I am liking for how I am playing the song that day . Which in turn gives me the BPM's and I can then just adjust the click in the DAW to that BPM , when recording
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:28 AM
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What KevWind said.

I pretty much always record to a click, and will take a couple passes through over a range of tempos until I feel like I find one that's going to work. And, realize it's always about time and place. I recently listened to a version of a song I did a few years ago, compared to how I set the tempo for a recent version, and thought, "jeez, why would I have played it so fast?" Well, it probably felt right at the time. A couple weeks ago, slower was better, and today, who knows.

I really try not to spend much time thinking about decisions made on things I can't change. The trick is having the patience (extremely lacking in my case) to listen to something you're currently working on over a few days, and make adjustments before it's published. Once it's out the door, eh, what's done is done...
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:32 AM
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Oh man, you could not pay me enough to listen to any of my albums again. Like a teenage girl in a store dressing room staring in a fluorescent lit mirror, all I can see is every little thing I wish was different.

Regarding tempo, what my process usually looks like is over months I make a lot of quick recordings of the tunes just on my iphone with a click while saying out loud something like “88 bpm,” and then later on my morning walk, when I’m away from the guitar, I’ll listen back and write down what I thought.

When I actually record I’ll usually not use a click, but I will listen to it for a minute or so just before hitting record. All that said, as per my first comment, I’m sure if I did listen back to any of my recordings now I would feel they are all too fast or too slow, and the parts that rush would drive me nuts..
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