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  #46  
Old 08-09-2020, 03:27 PM
PerryE PerryE is offline
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Interesting advice regarding singing from Robin. I did sing along on some of the verses and choruses although quite soft since I don’t feel 100% OK. Chord changes are much easier to feel when singing. Will work through the songs and also try to memorize the words and not only the chords
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  #47  
Old 08-09-2020, 04:37 PM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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Perry, from what your original post sounds like, I would strongly encourage you to pursue the upright bass. I have considered this myself and played a little bit here and there, for the same reasons.

As a guitar player, I play bluegrass almost exclusively, and have been learning since 2012. My flatpicking has progressed quite a bit, and I can hold down the rhythm quite well even in a fast jam, but the problem is like you say -- often there is no shortage of guitar players who are accomplished, making it extremely difficult for a newcomer to get recognized in bluegrass circles, especially if you are thinking about performing.

If all you want is being able to participate and are not too partial about whether that's by playing guitar or the bass, I think you have a fantastic opportunity at your hands: I feel pretty confident in saying that if you put in say, 3-6 months of bass practice, you should be able to play bluegrass at a performance level. I know this from experience -- bass players are in extremely high demand in bluegrass. When I had my first bluegrass band, my wife played bass. She had never played an instrument in her life and picked it up with no background in musical concepts. Within a few weeks, she was playing paid gigs. Bluegrass is a very forgiving genre when it comes to what's expected from a bass player.

The same is definitely not true for the guitar. I find one has to put in quite a lot of time and practice to play guitar at a level that would be considered adequate for bluegrass. It's a very different genre, too, especially with regard to rhythm and backup playing. I've met quite a few guitar players who can pick circles around me when it comes to ripping solos all over the neck, but are completely inept at providing the drive and feel that's needed for playing rhythm in a bluegrass setting. I find that bluegrass is a genre one doesn't "just play" as one of many. One has to live and breathe bluegrass. it's a very organic, vocal-driven genre, and feeds off an oral tradition of handing down music. I listen to bluegrass all the time, every day, and I think that's absolutely crucial to be able to play it.
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  #48  
Old 08-19-2020, 01:38 PM
PerryE PerryE is offline
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Another follow-up after our second practice session. 2.5 hours of pure fun playing rhythm guitar! One experienced bass player came with an upright bass he had borrowed and kept a nice and steady beat. Loads of helpful tips for me and this really accelerated my learning. I was really hesitant at first but now I am happy I started. Thanks to everyone who posted - I also agree that it is vocals-driven but still a place for me playing rhythm guitar.
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  #49  
Old 08-19-2020, 03:34 PM
BluesBelly BluesBelly is offline
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I’ve played guitar both flat picking and fingerstyle, as well as bass, for 56 years. At some point along my journey I bought a Paul Beard round neck resonator and tuned it to open G. I learned to play slide and fingerstyle bluesy stuff on the RESO all in open G. And, for along time I was satisfied with my musical journey.

Not too long ago I became interested in banjo. So I did research and realized that the banjo is also tuned in open G and that the chords I know for standard guitar and open G banjo are very easily adaptable from instrument to instrument.
I purchased a Recording King RK-R36 Madison resonator bluegrass banjo which is a quality mid priced Pro-Grade instrument at an affordable price.

If you know how to play guitar and you understand open G tuning it’s a fairly easy transition to the basics of Bluegrass banjo. To get started with banjo there are about eight banjo rollS to learn which is all right hand muscle memory (Think Travis Picking). Not to mention you are only dealing with 5 strings four of which are fretable as the 5th string is tuned to G and basically used as a drone. The left hand fingering is very intuitive with slides, hammer-ons, and pull-offs. the right hand fretting is really fairy simple given a person had guitar knowledge.

So, if your interested in Bluegrass consider, guitar, bass, mandolin, and certainly banjo. Maybe, in time, you will see the relationship between them which eases the transition and enables you to play one or all easily

Blues
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  #50  
Old 08-19-2020, 09:37 PM
rwmct rwmct is offline
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I don't think anyone else recommended this, so it is probably out to lunch, but since you were working on the harmonica anyway, why not that? Harmonica goes with everything, IMO, and a lot of what "bluegrass" bands play is often just country music, and harmonica works great for that, as anyone who has listened to the NGDB "Circle" album knows.

Another great example is the harmonica on that first Jonathan Edwards album-- such as
"Athens County." Not exactly bluegrass, but will give you the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3rJ6wBfBYc
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  #51  
Old 08-20-2020, 02:38 AM
PerryE PerryE is offline
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Cool suggestions- agree that harmonica goes with everything! Little bit of chugging and an occasional solo would be great if I can pull it off. Will try.

I am also testing using my cavaquinho as a rhythm instrument and strum on beats 2 and 4 - tuned DGBD and has a cool sound in my opinion.

Anyway - interesting discussion and lots of valuable comments!
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  #52  
Old 08-20-2020, 12:34 PM
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If it were me, I would go for the bass option. I started out on banjo. It's totally different from guitar and it takes a lot of practice to be good at it. Mandolin isn't as bad, but it also takes a ton of practice to be as good as you need to be for fast bluegrass leads. Dobro is an option, but just because it is similar to a guitar, don't expect to play it like one.

I would really just plan to find someone to teach you upright bass, then buy a good one and get to work!
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  #53  
Old 08-20-2020, 06:50 PM
jwellsy jwellsy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodallboy View Post
Clearly a candidate for Electric Autoharp.
That's the unique hook I was thinking about too. An autoharp cradled like John Sebastian. A lot of good showmanship could go into that. It would captivate the audience. I used to have one that I rebuilt the pads on it to be able to chord it with my left hand easier while standing up.
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  #54  
Old 10-15-2020, 02:33 AM
PerryE PerryE is offline
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Default Getting started w Bluegrass- which instrument?

Another short update. Even though I am struggling with some of the faster tunes it is a great continuous learning process. I have definitely learnt a lot that there is no way I would have done on my own.

Things like adding an extra bar of root chord after verses and small stuff like really paying attention to the other players is hard to learn without actually playing with others

All in all - great fun and I am improving my guitar playing

Next weekend I will attend a 2-day bluegrass workshop which will be fun

Last edited by PerryE; 10-15-2020 at 03:58 AM.
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  #55  
Old 10-15-2020, 05:49 AM
Norsepicker Norsepicker is offline
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Default Mandolin

I’d give mandolin a shot. I just got one. I’d avoided for years because of big hands, and I’ve been exclusively fingerstyle. The chording is no problem and I’m actually loving the pick. It’s by far the easiest instrument I’ve attempted and I’m learning it the fastest. I play primarily classical and fingerstyle guitar, and I’ve recently taken up clawhammer banjo and old style 3 finger banjo. I also play tenor guitar and National resonator triolian. The mandolin is so much easier and intuitive. A side benefit are the classes Magnus Zetturlund teaches in Nordic mandolin. He’s Swedish and does Nordic music on mandolin, and since you already know violin you know the mandolin tuning.
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  #56  
Old 10-15-2020, 08:54 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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I'll agree to disagree about the bass.
If you are joining the group and they have a bass player. There is only room
For one bass in a bluegrass jam.
You would have to wait your turn to play.
Probably 2 or 3 mandolin players
Which is usually the case but it's ok to have
Multiples there.. if you want to stand out
Buy an octave mandolin. It fills that tonal
Niche just south of guitar.
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  #57  
Old 10-15-2020, 09:36 AM
Ralph124C41 Ralph124C41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
I'll agree to disagree about the bass.
If you are joining the group and they have a bass player. There is only room
For one bass in a bluegrass jam.
You would have to wait your turn to play....
I agree. I played electric bass in your typical local bar band for years and I can tell you that I've seldom been to an acoustic jam where two basses paly the same tune. And at a bluegrass jam I think the two basses would be counter-productive. You know, too many bass players can spoil the broth or soup or song ... as a revised saying goes.

So that could be a problem. You buy the big bass, you pack it into your vehicle, you take it to the jam ... and there is another bassist. Maybe he or she is an accepted member of the group and has "priority." Maybe he or she doesn't want to share playing time.

There was an acoustic jam (not true bluegrass but we did do some bluegrass) near me that I went to for years. I wanted to bring my electric bass and a small amp and the leader said it was OK. However there was an established player who regularly showed up with his standup bass and he didn't seem to be receptive to having me bring mine. So I just always brought my guitar. But on the days he didn't show up I always wished I had brought my electric and maybe just left it out in the car for that opportunity.
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  #58  
Old 10-15-2020, 04:03 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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To actually answer the question, I find that once you like fine instruments, a "beginner" instrument on something new will not float your boat. Buy a D 18.

If you want to play bluegrass and everyone else is somewhat accomplished, buy a bass, but be aware you likely will play no other instrument. Ever. You will make friends, and a bass is better than no bass. The I V thing is somewhat of a joke, but you can get by with that. It's the fastest way to play with others.

Can you sing harmony? Learn bass and sing harmony and you might find yourself playing in more than one band.

Mandolin is a delightful instrument. It's main function in a bluegrass band is as a snare drum to the bass' kick. Chop the backbeat most of the time. Once again, do you sing? A bluegrass band should have three singers who can harmonize. You can learn two basic chord patterns and play a lot of songs. I'm four and a half years in, and enjoy it a lot. Once again, they are expensive little buggars. Eastman, Kentucky, and Loar are just ok. Oh, and the tradition in bluegrass is to play an F style, double the price of an A. Not strictly necessary, but think of it like showing up in an English riding outfit to a rodeo. Mandolins are tuned in fifths, so a lot of stuff can move up or down a course of strings so you learn one thing and use it two ways. But if you haven't used a flatpick, that is one more thing to learn.

Is there a fiddle player and a banjo? A bluegrass band needs both IMHO. One guitar is more than enough. Two if one can play like Tony Rice.

IF you can sing harmony, grab a bass and go. I'd do that in a heartbeat to play with the right musicians.
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  #59  
Old 10-15-2020, 09:29 PM
Batmitestar Batmitestar is offline
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This is a fantastic thread.

As you were.
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  #60  
Old 10-15-2020, 10:39 PM
Tempotantrum Tempotantrum is offline
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Bluegrass is my passion. I switch between Guitar and Mandolin - but I tried really hard (5 yrs+) to get proficient at Banjo (still love the 5 string) and some dobro as well. I think with some musical background, nearly any instrument can be started out on, but to get beyond basic chording and into improvised leads at bluegrass tempos will take focus (though some have more natural ability than others and can seem to make this happen magically). I find that those instruments that are high-pitched and stand out sonically (Banjo & Fiddle) are hardest to master as your timing and intonation need to be spot on. Bass players need excellent timing and rhythm. I would recommend listening to as much traditional bluegrass as possible and let the music speak to you - It might guide you to a particular aspect of the music that excites more than others. For example - as a mandolin player I feel connected to Bill and can get a sense of what drove him to some degree. I consider the voice as one of the most important instruments in bluegrass. If you can sing (and harmonize in parts) you have something to add. Bluegrass is an amazing journey - enjoy it! P.S. Accordion and even snare drums have appeared in some great traditional bluegrass music. Harmonica (IMO) not so much.
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