Zoom F4 fader/trim Question

[joshpnw]

Hey All,

I'm trying to record with this thing and am running into some parts I don't quite understand. I am not a recording engineer (which will become obvious).

First off, to make sure I understand this correctly: there's trim and there's fader. Trim is the max input level, and fade is output (in my case to the headphones). Right?

So I set the trim to 20db for mic input (it sets line and mic at the same time. I'm assuming the mic is xlr and the line is the other kind). I set the fader at 12 db, which is as high as it will go. The trim doesn't clip at 20 (it does at 30, I think), but with the fader maxed it doesn't seem loud enough. I can hear it, but I would expect with the faders all the way to the top it would be at least a little too loud.

Basically, I just want to make sure I'm getting enough signal. Is there some other setting I should be paying attention to?

Thanks!

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by joshpnw

Hey All,

I'm trying to record with this thing and am running into some parts I don't quite understand. I am not a recording engineer (which will become obvious).

First off, to make sure I understand this correctly: there's trim and there's fader. Trim is the max input level, and fade is output (in my case to the headphones). Right?

So I set the trim to 20db for mic input (it sets line and mic at the same time. I'm assuming the mic is xlr and the line is the other kind). I set the fader at 12 db, which is as high as it will go. The trim doesn't clip at 20 (it does at 30, I think), but with the fader maxed it doesn't seem loud enough. I can hear it, but I would expect with the faders all the way to the top it would be at least a little too loud.

Basically, I just want to make sure I'm getting enough signal. Is there some other setting I should be paying attention to?

Thanks!

Yes, Trim is what controls the preamplifier gain (this control is often called Gain on an audio interface) that is applied to the input. For recording, you want the Gain/Trim set to insure you don't clip, and that the level gives a good clean signal-to-noise (s/n) in the track. This s/n is also controlled by mic placement and attenuating environmental sounds, too, but assuming they are controlled, you ideally have the gain so peaks are well below 0dBFS - many folks want to see peaks below -6dB, or even lower if working in a great environment with really quiet preamps.

The Fader (and Pan control) is just for the mix you hear in your ears, the Main outs, and LR stereo mix if you record that in addition to the tracks.

I didn't have an F4 but did have an F8 (still have the F8n). The last firmware update for the F8 had a digital boost setting for headphone output, as the headphone amp on those models was considered inadequate by many. It was fine for the acoustic kind of settings I was recording, but probably not for many other kinds recording sessions. You might check to see if they have added that in the F4 firmware, as well.

P.S. (Edit): I didn't see the boost documented in the F4 manual but the firmware version history shows that it was added in v3.0, so make sure you have that firmware update.

Version 3.00
Released as following function updates and bug fixes in February 2019

• Function Updates
  1. Added Advanced Look-Ahead Hybrid Limiters.
  2. Added Zoom AutoMix™ function.
  3. Added headphone boost function (up to +24dB).
  4. Improved Timecode Precision when powered off.
  5. Added ability to record to SD card and use as audio interface simultaneously (up to 48kHz).
  6. Added some other new functions. For details please refer to the F4 Version 3.0 Supplementary Manual.
• Bug Fixes
  1. The time reference of recorded files is slightly shifted when the frame rate for timecode is set to 29.97D.

P.P.S. Also, don't use those 250Ω headphones on that headphone out, in case that's what you've been doing. You really want 32Ω or so for that 100mW amp.

[joshpnw]

Thanks for the good info. I appreciate it. That is the thing: it's not that there's anything wrong, maybe, just what's coming out of the headphones doesn't sound loud enough. Like, if the level is cranked, I would expect it to be too loud, but that would be okay.

I'll check for that firmware update, and I've also signed up for the F4 course at Learn Light And Sound. This thing is a little more involved than just some software and a preamp.

Thanks again!

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by joshpnw

Thanks for the good info. I appreciate it. That is the thing: it's not that there's anything wrong, maybe, just what's coming out of the headphones doesn't sound loud enough. Like, if the level is cranked, I would expect it to be too loud, but that would be okay.

I'll check for that firmware update, and I've also signed up for the F4 course at Learn Light And Sound. This thing is a little more involved than just some software and a preamp.

Thanks again!

I'm not sure how you are using the F4, and what is preventing you from hearing the headphone output. The headphone output (especially with the boost) along with lower-ohm, closed-back headphones should be adequate unless you are trying to record something loud, which suggests to me you are risking hearing damage if you don't get something that isolates better. (Or maybe turn down other tracks you are listening to?)

Curtis Judd's class should be good. I followed him a lot before plunging into the F8 and F8n (upgrades from my original H6).

[joshpnw]

It looks like it was the headphones. Before my initial post, I was using some Bose quiet comfort headphones without a battery, but when I switched to Shure SRH 440s, the difference was dramatic. The impedance on the latter is 44 ohm, while on the former it's unspecified.

Thanks very much, that helped a lot.

All I'm trying to do is record some acoustic guitar. :-)