Does wireless system degrade tone?

[zeeway]

I have used an Xvive U2 wireless system for about a year now, and I am beginning to suspect that my guitar tone sounds better through a cable, than through wireless. Perhaps it is only my imagination. But in the endless pursuit of better tone, could this be one of the culprits?

[rokdog49]

Well, I am certainly no expert.
I think that unless you are using an internal microphone pickup design or combination thereof, an amplified acoustic sounds like an amplified acoustic with your specific pickup in it. My playing partner uses a wireless system with his mandolin. Sounds like an amplified Mandolin to me.

Lots of performers use wireless everything on stage these days. I guess the real question is will anyone but you know the difference if there is any.
I doubt it.

I’ll be anxiously awaiting the expert opinions of others.

[EZYPIKINS]

Wireless will definitely change the tone. The cheaper the system the more the change.
Question...What kind of guitar are you running?

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

Wireless will definitely change the tone. The cheaper the system the more the change.
Question...What kind of guitar are you running?

I’m curious.
Please elaborate on how the tone would be affected.
Seems if you have EQ at the other end, you can compensate? No?

[zeeway]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

Wireless will definitely change the tone. The cheaper the system the more the change.
Question...What kind of guitar are you running?

Emerald X2, HFN Shatten passive pickup, through Tonedexter to Fishman Artist amp.

[douglasfan1]

Originally Posted by zeeway

I have used an Xvive U2 wireless system for about a year now, and I am beginning to suspect that my guitar tone sounds better through a cable, than through wireless. Perhaps it is only my imagination. But in the endless pursuit of better tone, could this be one of the culprits?

I also got an Xvive U2 recently. Of course I can hear the difference between cable and Xvive U2. It eats quite a portion of high treble and even the mid. However, you got the freedom. I think that's ok if playing in a band. However, better use cable if play alone.

[PeterM]

Yikes...can of worms here...I know NOTHING about these devices, but here is some theory about as simply as I can put it.

Will wireless sound different? Most likely.

1. First the analog signal has to be digitized.
2. Then it has to be sent over the air to the receiver.
3. Then it has to be converted back to analog (most likely) to get to the speakers.

Each step involves processing and software etc. The quality of this software is VERY important here. Each time there is some software, there can (and likely will be) loss of data. Think early CD's...almost unlistenable compared to a vinyl record. Or think MP3's...again mostly unlistenable due to the compression used so that it would fit into the available bandwith.

So this partly could be a bandwith issue. Think cellphones...3G, then 4G, then 5G. Each generation has more usable bandwith. The more bandwith the more data can be sent over the air. Or partly software. Likely partly other things such as interference between the transmitter and receiver.

Think like this...when using a cable from your guitar, what is the quality of this cable? Why do they sell "good" "better" and "best" ?
Or think of bass players that use huge cables...that is to carry the bandwith required. Or some bass players use 2 cables...so that each individual cable carries only some of the signal.

In other words, lots going on right?

[shufflebeat]

If everything is working well it will make a difference which can be adjusted for. The difference between cable/wireless will be nothing compared to acoustic/amplified pickup.

Record both signals (assuming you have the kit). One way to do this would be to go cable to TD, then split the signal, XLR to in1 and jack out of TD via wireless to in2. Adjust for level and make sure you don't overdrive the wireless input. Compare and contrast, see if you can match them with EQ. If you can reliably time match the recordings to adjust for latency you might like to invert the polarity on one recording and sum them to mono, they will null and what you will here is the difference between the two. If you hear lots of top end then one has more top than the other. If you hear nothing then they are identical.

Originally Posted by PeterM

Yikes...can of worms here...I know NOTHING about these devices, but here is some theory about as simply as I can put it.

Will wireless sound different? Most likely.

1. First the analog signal has to be digitized.
2. Then it has to be sent over the air to the receiver.
3. Then it has to be converted back to analog (most likely) to get to the speakers.

Each step involves processing and software etc. The quality of this software is VERY important here. Each time there is some software, there can (and likely will be) loss of data. Think early CD's...almost unlistenable compared to a vinyl record.

We have moved on

Or think MP3's...again mostly unlistenable due to the compression used so that it would fit into the available bandwith.

Likewise, hi-res mp3 is indistinguishable for most people with systems that can't represent the advantages of lossless formats, most people listen to most music on earbuds.

So this partly could be a bandwith issue. Think cellphones...3G, then 4G, then 5G. Each generation has more usable bandwith. The more bandwith the more data can be sent over the air. Or partly software. Likely partly other things such as interference between the transmitter and receiver.

Audible bandwidth is audible bandwidth, once you get beyond 10kHz only bats will care.

Think like this...when using a cable from your guitar, what is the quality of this cable? Why do they sell "good" "better" and "best" ?

This is "HiFi world" thinking (where dentists burn £2k on a power cable). Decent cheap guitar cables sound identical to expensive ones (see null test above), they just break quicker. My Klotz/Neutrik cables will last a lifetime.

Or think of bass players that use huge cables...that is to carry the bandwith required. Or some bass players use 2 cables...so that each individual cable carries only some of the signal.

Bass players just like big things, it's a bass player thing, not an electro/audio thing.

In other words, lots going on right?

There certainly is, but don't get distracted by irrelevant froth. Music creation and system building are great complementary projects but only one can be exploited by others for £$€¥.

[EZYPIKINS]

It will make a difference. The question is. Is it enough of a difference to bother you? Myself I don't like the sound of acoustic pickups to begin with. So when playing plugged in. I take the sound Eq it and go. I have used wireless in the past. Mid level Audio Tech. The biggest plus for me was the convenience of not being tethered. I don't run all over the stage anymore. So I went back to a cable. Buying batteries gets expensive. Used to go through 3 to 6, 9volts per week. Signal must be converted to digital then heavily compressed or zipped. Transmitted, unzipped then converted back to analogue. The cheaper the unit, the more signal that is lost in the A/D D/A conversions. I know people who use these little units. They get by just fine. I particularly don't care for the tone. But that's me. I can't tell anyone what to use or not use. Use what you like. and feel good about it. The initial question was. Does wireless degrade tone? I gave the simple answer. Yes. So does cheap cables, old strings, poor intonation, amplification choices, dirty power. There are many variables. I was first disappointed with an acoustic pickup after hearing a recording back. I didn't like what I heard so I started using a mic for recording. Still used the crappy pickup live. Bottom line is, use your choices. Nobody listening will criticize you for it. Most people listening to you will be amazed that you can do what you do anyway. No different than choosing a car. Some choose a Chevy Cavalier and are content with it. Others have to have a Lincoln or Mercedes or even Bentley. I'm about in the Lincoln category myself. I like nice things. I guess I am a medium budget guy.

[rmp]

Depends on the wireless in use.

The Line 6 G series do a pretty good job of sounding like a cable. I've tried to hear a difference, I just can't.

Not saying someone wont hear a degradation, some have better ears, but mine are still pretty good.

[Jim Comeaux]

Are you ready for thr non-answer answer? It is, yes and no. Any time you transmit an analog signal, I.e. a sound, you distort it. When the sound is converted into an electrical impulse and then reconverted into a sound signal it is distorted. How much it is distorted is the measure of the quality of the device doing the conversion/modulation/transformation and/or restoration. To put it more succinctly, if one cannot perceive that the sound is distorted, the device does not change the tone, but just because it is not perceptible, it does not mean that the sound is not distorted in reality. Or, just because you can’t hear it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Think of a dog whistle.

[B. Adams]

The best wireless system in the world is almost as good as an average cable.

[leew3]

What Rokdog said above. I've used the Xvive system with my mandolin for several years and love it. I don't note any degradation of tone compared to a cable and love the freedom of being cable free. I've used it with a K & K equipped guitar with similar good outcomes. There may be a difference that someone could notice if they really worked at it. The reality is that our audiences could care less and don't notice these subtle nuances about which members obsess endlessly. If it sounds like an amplified mandolin or guitar, then I'm good.

[Villamarzia]

I use a Sennheiser XSW-D wireless system which I find great. Whenever I have to use a cable, I use Vovox, which are high-end Swiss cables. The difference is hardly audible through my acoustic rig, even if I use Daedalus cabinets and other good stuff. To reply to some previous comments, a good wireless system sounds as a good cable, better than a cheap and long cable (there, I hear a difference). The point for me is: if you play live, an eventual difference is not perceivable. If you are recording, you probably won’t plug in anyway. So, why use a cable?!

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Jim Comeaux

Are you ready for thr non-answer answer? It is, yes and no. Any time you transmit an analog signal, I.e. a sound, you distort it. ....

Except you aren't transmitting analog signals.

You are converting it into digital, transmitting digital then converting it back to analog.



The real answer is that it depends (essentially ONLY) upon the bit rate of the digital conversion used.

What you WILL see is a latency effect of 2-20 ms which may or may not be noticeable to you.



Cheap units will have more lag and possible lower sound quality due to bit rate.

Expensive units, the opposite.

I have a cheap set and a mid-range setup. Both are excellent and I notice no issues with either.