Can I (should I) lower the action on this guitar

[Quickstep192]

I also posted this in classical, but realized I might get more replies over here.

Attached are some pictures of my crossover guitar. To me, the action feels high, but as you can see in the picture, there’s virtually no saddle to work with to lower it. I also took a picture with a rule at the 12th fret. It has a Spanish heel and notruss rod. Any suggestions are appreciated.

In case it matters, I use Hannabach Custom Low Tension Basses and Knobloch CX Active Medium Tension For 1 & 2 and CX Active Medium-High Tension for the 3rd

[Edgar Poe]

I am not really familiar with Classical guitar set ups. My question is, is it common for classical guitar to experience the high action. I was under the impression because of the lower tension that the neck typically do not raise up. It appears according to the bridge, the neck has moved up a quite a bit. Does it have a problem with the neck. is the soundboard pushed way down ?

Ed

[tadol]

You need to look at the relief as well - set-ups on classical instruments are a bit trickier, and its worth getting a really good local tech to look at it and review options - that should include showing them your playing style so they can understand what you think you need done -

[Quickstep192]

I checked and the neck has no relief; it’s flat from nut to heel. The fingerboard does taper a tiny bit over its length.

The guitar plays well, I just wish for slightly lower action, if that’s even reasonable.

[phavriluk]

This sounds to me like the sort of complex question that needs to be asked of a luthier, in person.

[mirwa]

Its not a complicated question, if the action feels high for you then yes lower it.

If the question is how can i get this action lower we need some more info

Steve

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by mirwa

Its not a complicated question, if the action feels high for you then yes lower it.

If the question is how can i get this action lower we need some more info

Steve

OK, fire away with questions. I doubt I’ll take this on myself, but it will help me ask good questions of the person who does.

It looks like there’s a little room to deepen the saddle slot and then lower the top.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

OK, fire away with questions. I doubt I’ll take this on myself, but it will help me ask good questions of the person who does.

It looks like there’s a little room to deepen the saddle slot and then lower the top.

Looking at your picture I think you're on the right track.
That whole bridge/saddle set up is quite high - there's certainly plenty of string break angle happening!

[ManyMartinMan]

I would start by evaluating the string height at the nut after verifying the neck is right. Then, I would level the frets and make sure they were correct - then I would sand the saddle from the bottom. i wouldn't be increasing the saddle slot.

[tadol]

So you’ve got about 3.5mm at the 12th - what would you like that to be? Basically, for every 1mm you want to lower it at the 12th fret, you need to lower the saddle by 2mm. It looks like you’d be lucky to lower it .25 mm without sanding the bridge down as well - you might start by seeing if you can get the saddle out easily, then you can mark the bridge to see how hard it’ll be to get a little sanding block to take the top down evenly. Then mark and sand the bottom of the saddle down, reassemble, tune up, and see how you did -

[mirwa]

K

So you ave approximatley 3.6mm string clearance at the 12th or around 144 thou ish.

How much measured relief do you have in the neck
What is the string clearance height over the first fret
What is the height under the strings just in front of the bridge
What is the measured height of the saddle itself
Do you have a truss rod installed

Steve

[nikpearson]

...there is a limit before buzzing will occur. This will be partly dependent on the tension of string used and the player’s weight of attack as well as the setup.

So I’d be asking when you play your loudest parts now do you get any buzzing?

If the main issue is the action looks high compared to typical steel-string instruments then that’s to be expected. If you find the instrument difficult to play then it’s worth getting someone to look at whether the action can be lowered successfully.

I think you mentioned that there’s no relief in the neck. This is worth having checked out properly; the measurements involved are very small less than 0.25mm. A (very) little relief is desirable and the quickest way to achieve this might be to use higher tension strings. Worth noting that the difference between tension with nylon/composite strings is relatively small when compared with steel strings. If memory serves me correctly the lowest tension strings are around 36kg, with the highest around 43kg. Also string tensions very considerably between manufactures. For example, D’Addario Extra Hard are actually lighter tension than Savarez Hard.

All food for thought, but I think some advice from someone who can check out the guitar in person is the way forward.

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by mirwa

K

So you ave approximatley 3.6mm string clearance at the 12th or around 144 thou ish.

How much measured relief do you have in the neck
What is the string clearance height over the first fret
What is the height under the strings just in front of the bridge
What is the measured height of the saddle itself
Do you have a truss rod installed

Steve

How much measured relief do you have in the neck
.15mm measured at the 6th fret

What is the string clearance height over the first fret
.6mm

What is the height under the strings just in front of the bridge
11.5mm from top to underside of string

What is the measured height of the saddle itself
The saddle itself is 5mm

Do you have a truss rod installed
No truss rod

[John Arnold]

I think the question about saddle height was protrusion above the bridge.

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I think the question about saddle height was protrusion above the bridge.

That’s correct. If there were enough saddle protruding above the bridge slot, I’d just make a new (lower) saddle and see what happened. As it is, I’m right on the edge.