JBL EON Compact Unboxing/Initial Review

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Cuki and Dave... So is the gain thing a real issue or not? My QSC speakers don’t get to their full potential without a preamp in front of them either...

I have no idea...

As far as I am concerned I can my own preamps so it is not such a big deal.

As a general matter it is disappointing. However their is not much competition out there.

The only battery powered speaker with proper gain settings are the Fishman mini charge and the Elite acoustic amps. They are all heavier.

As always we will have to find a compromise. I can’t believe felt that close from something perfect in order to save $5 components...

[MarkF_48]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Here is a picture quoted from the EON 610 manual (which is not the JBL Eon one compact... But let's consider it is the same people who made both).

You can see the Mic/Line controls an extra gain stage. The manual is some what unclear... So I will just quote it


As I interprete it, there are two gain stages and one volume per channel.
Each channel has:
* a first +29dB gain stage that can be turned ON (MIC mode) or OFF (Line level mode)
* a second +26.8 dB gain stage which is always ON.
* A volume pot that attenuate from - infinity to max volume (which is either 26.8dB in Line level or 55.8dB in mic mode.)

.

Below is the front end of an EON615 from the service manual. It's actually the first stage which is switched to alter the gain difference of the differential pair of OP-Amps. The first stage always has gain, just different depending on the MIC/Line switch position. U1C in the schematic is the second gain stage followed by a third before the signal hits the Volume control for the channel. Both second and third are fixed in gain.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by stephenT

Not enough volume for my use, didn't like the initial sound,.. upper mids/top end being harsh to my ear, maybe w/ a mic that wouldn't be a bad thing, might help w clarity. I'm sure you could EQ and get a better sound

What pickup did you use? With what preamp if any? In which channel did you plug in?

I have a SR Jam150+, and although I love Schertler/SR amps, they are not full range flat response speakers. they are voiced to “enhance” the acoustic tone. I get cleaner vocal from a PA speaker. Bose stuff similarly are voiced to a specific tone.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by MarkF_48

Below is the front end of an EON615 from the service manual. It's actually the first stage which is switched to alter the gain difference of the differential pair of OP-Amps. The first stage always has gain, just different depending on the MIC/Line switch position. U1C in the schematic is the second gain stage followed by a third before the signal hits the Volume control for the channel. Both second and third are fixed in gain.

Thanks for the picture: the mic/line switch clearly affects the amount of gain on the first stage!

[stephenT]

I've mentioned my rig in this thread, Tried both Sunrise and Fishman Blackstack pickups preamped w/ an 18v Sunrise Buffer/Preamp box.

Tried every input. I was disappointed w/ the initial sound and didn't use the app for further EQ. If you're suggesting the JBL is flat I wouldn't agree. It has an upper mid range bump to my ear w/ controls "flat". The Jam 400 has a smoother, flatter frequency response once you get it off the floor.

But I took it out back of the box and I'm updating the firmware, I'll give it another try to see if the update makes any improvements.

Originally Posted by Cuki79

What pickup did you use? With what preamp if any? In which channel did you plug in?

I have a SR Jam150+, and although I love Schertler/SR amps, they are not full range flat response speakers. they are voiced to “enhance” the acoustic tone. I get cleaner vocal from a PA speaker. Bose stuff similarly are voiced to a specific tone.

[BoneDigger]

Mine will arrive on Monday or Tuesday. Looking forward to giving it a try. Of I like it, I'll keep it, if not it goes back. But from what I've seen and heard, I think it will be a nice addition to my toys.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by stephenT

I've mentioned my rig in this thread, Tried both Sunrise and Fishman Blackstack pickups preamped w/ an 18v Sunrise Buffer/Preamp box.

Tried every input. I was disappointed w/ the initial sound and didn't use the app for further EQ. If you're suggesting the JBL is flat I wouldn't agree. It has an upper mid range bump to my ear w/ controls "flat". The Jam 400 has a smoother, flatter frequency response once you get it off the floor.

But I took it out back of the box and I'm updating the firmware, I'll give it another try to see if the update makes any improvements.

Thanks for the information, this is something we have to listen to in future AeroUSA videos: Especially the Bose S1 vs JBL video. There is no doubt that the JAM will sound bigger and louder but there is no reason for the JBL should to have an upper midrange bump, unless the crossover is badly designed. I don’t know if it is biamped btw. I have a Laney AH4x4 which is almost half the price of a Bose S1. It has no lows (closed box 4” speakers) but over its bandwidth and when it is not pushed too far it is pretty flat.

By the way, did you hear the harshness at low or high volumes or both?

I would not be surprised if the JBL had a weaker plastic enclosure (to limit the weight) leading to this kind of harshness... you said it was not loud enough maybe you pushed it too far already?

Aaron, in your next video, it would be great if you can comment on the tone of the JBL when pushed just before the limiter takes action. the limiter should limit the lows to protect the speaker... leading to some harshness. If that happens very early the JBL won’t be loud enough for many people.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by MarkF_48

Below is the front end of an EON615 from the service manual. It's actually the first stage which is switched to alter the gain difference of the differential pair of OP-Amps. The first stage always has gain, just different depending on the MIC/Line switch position. U1C in the schematic is the second gain stage followed by a third before the signal hits the Volume control for the channel. Both second and third are fixed in gain.

So I quickly made the math from MarkF_48 schematic using the formula given by wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentation_amplifier

I get 1.9dB gain for the first stage in Line mode and 30.6dB gain. So the difference between mic and line is +28.7dB which is basically what JBL published (once you understand

My conclusion is that: If the preamp design of the eon compact design is similar to the EON615 there should be plenty of gain for a mic. Note that is you use a TS jack the difference is only 23.8 dB gain because the lower opAmp does not amplifiy anything.

[lpa53]

Here's what might be a dumb, but basic, question: There are lots of portable DJ/presenter PAs on the market. Aside from the app to control this unit, what sets it apart that would make it, over others, to be more suitable to a performing musician?

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by lpa53

Here's what might be a dumb, but basic, question: There are lots of portable DJ/presenter PAs on the market. Aside from the app to control this unit, what sets it apart that would make it, over others, to be more suitable to a performing musician?

weight.

ex: dB technologies Be Hype M: 27 lbs and 2 wheels

[DownUpDave]

Aaron please do a review of this unit on “battery power”. In the video it was not charged so I am assuming you were playing it plugged in, but I might have missed something here. You state that it is louder then the Bose S1, is that when both are running off of battery power? Thanks again for everything you do.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I think they are just trying to prevent their primary user group (prosumer) from blowing out their speakers. Every prosumer maker seems to be doing similar things. Pro users can use the speaker with a little work around (mic gain). And, it's relatively cheap. Most pro combo systems with proper class A preamps start around $1000.

Well, I reckon I was expecting more, don't know why.

The JBL Eon One Pro (line array) is supposed to be an ultimate grab and go solution for duos (battery power, 4 xlr ins) and is built for musicians. Everyone says that the onboard mixer sucks and it has no power without using an additional mixer. This piece of gear IS AIMED at gigging musicians, yet they still can't get it right. On a piece of gear like this, I really don't understand how they can miss the mark. All the Wireless and Bluetooth stuff is cool, but I'll take knobs and extra volume all day long - I think most of us would.

Look, I know that there are always compromises, but IMO, at the prices the S1 and Eon Compact go - the compromises are so big as to steer many (not all) musicians away. For instance, my Roland Cube Street EX offer WAY more gain/volume on channels 1, 2 and aux in. The compromise? The lack of clarity, especially in vocals. The plus? Actually a decent sounding modeling amp. So people that want the clarity of the S1 or Compact would think my Cube sucks too - just in a different way.

And in fairness, my Cube was at a similar price-point.

I think my problem is that I was expecting kind of a "next generation" kind of improvement, where the compromises are fewer and the increase in power was evident - kind of like with calculators, computers and cellphones over the years.

So, as the "next big thing", to me, they fall way short. Still probably a useful piece of kit for some, I guess - just not me. If I have electric for a mixer, I have it for a powered speaker too.

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

weight.

ex: dB technologies Be Hype M: 27 lbs and 2 wheels

That's a difference that would appeal to anyone, and not just musicians.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Well, I reckon I was expecting more, don't know why.

The JBL Eon One Pro (line array) is supposed to be an ultimate grab and go solution for duos (battery power, 4 xlr ins) and is built for musicians. Everyone says that the onboard mixer sucks and it has no power without using an additional mixer. This piece of gear IS AIMED at gigging musicians, yet they still can't get it right. On a piece of gear like this, I really don't understand how they can miss the mark. All the Wireless and Bluetooth stuff is cool, but I'll take knobs and extra volume all day long - I think most of us would.

Look, I know that there are always compromises, but IMO, at the prices the S1 and Eon Compact go - the compromises are so big as to steer many (not all) musicians away. For instance, my Roland Cube Street EX offer WAY more gain/volume on channels 1, 2 and aux in. The compromise? The lack of clarity, especially in vocals. The plus? Actually a decent sounding modeling amp. So people that want the clarity of the S1 or Compact would think my Cube sucks too - just in a different way.

And in fairness, my Cube was at a similar price-point.

I think my problem is that I was expecting kind of a "next generation" kind of improvement, where the compromises are fewer and the increase in power was evident - kind of like with calculators, computers and cellphones over the years.

So, as the "next big thing", to me, they fall way short. Still probably a useful piece of kit for some, I guess - just not me. If I have electric for a mixer, I have it for a powered speaker too.

I own the Eon One Pro and it works fine for me. Part of the problem is a lack of understanding regarding their mixer layout. The Eon One pro has 4 channels. The first unit (Eon One) did not have a proper high Z input option. But, the new unit solves that problem.

Now, with the Pro, each channel has two fixed gain settings. They are labeled "mic and line". Mic is close to 30dB and line is close to 20dB. Regardless of what you are plugging into it, you can choose one of those two. I don't have any issues with using the higher "mic" gain setting for any of my inputs. In addition, the first two channels have a phantom power option and the last two channels have a high Z option. Again these phantom and high Z work with either fixed gain setting. It works great for my purposes.

The only problem I have with new Compact unit is that they kept the first two channels the same, but they deviated from the Pro design and eliminated the higher gain option from the High Z (3rd) channel. This makes it too weak for a passive pickup without a preamp.

Now, there are users, like DavidE, for whom the 30dB gain is simply not enough for their instruments and mics. This makes the JBL product a non-starter for him. But, this is all dependent on need and use case. For me, the Pro design, with an app for the effects and EQ, would have been the perfect solution.

If I were to purchase a Eon One Compact, I would probably limiting myself to the two channels, as I don't typically use any pedals that would make channel 3 usable. I would use my wireless system to correct impedance for the guitar with passive K&K into channel 2. Channel 3 would not be usable without a pedal or preamp. I'm not sure, for me, the EQ and effects are enough reason to change from the Bose S1 Pro to the Eon One. But, if I were starting from scratch, I might get the JBL for the added features knowing that 30 dB is enough gain for me, and I would only be using two channels.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I own the Eon One Pro and it works fine for me. Part of the problem is a lack of understanding regarding their mixer layout. The Eon One pro has 4 channels. The first unit (Eon One) did not have a proper high Z input option. But, the new unit solves that problem.

Now, with the Pro, each channel has two fixed gain settings. They are labeled "mic and line". Mic is close to 30dB and line is close to 20dB. Regardless of what you are plugging into it, you can choose one of those two. I don't have any issues with using the higher "mic" gain setting for any of my inputs. In addition, the first two channels have a phantom power option and the last two channels have a high Z option. Again these phantom and high Z work with either fixed gain setting. It works great for my purposes.

The only problem I have with new Compact unit is that they kept the first two channels the same, but they deviated from the Pro design and eliminated the higher gain option from the High Z (3rd) channel. This makes it too weak for a passive pickup without a preamp.

Now, there are users, like DavidE, for whom the 30dB gain is simply not enough for their instruments and mics. This makes the JBL product a non-starter for him. But, this is all dependent on need and use case. For me, the Pro design, with an app for the effects and EQ, would have been the perfect solution.

If I were to purchase a Eon One Compact, I would probably limiting myself to the two channels, as I don't typically use any pedals that would make channel 3 usable. I would use my wireless system to correct impedance for the guitar with passive K&K into channel 2. Channel 3 would not be usable without a pedal or preamp. I'm not sure, for me, the EQ and effects are enough reason to change from the Bose S1 Pro to the Eon One. But, if I were starting from scratch, I might get the JBL for the added features knowing that 30 dB is enough gain for me, and I would only be using two channels.

This is good to know. I guess I shouldn't always go by what the reviews say. What size room/crowd is the Eon One Pro capable of playing to (in your opinion)?

Thanks, Roy