Dinky-bodied guitar build questions

[Bass.swimmer]

I've started a new build, a piccolo guitar. I wanted something tiny and easy to play as I recover from surgery. However, I have a few questions:

- what is the average string tension for a tiny guitar like that? Since it's roughly 1/3 the size of a normal guitar, is the tension 1/3 as well?

- should I still use a 3/8" tall bridge (not counting the saddle), or is that too much mass for such a small top?

- what neck joint would you all recommend? Is there enough tension to do a lag screw, or should I use cross dowel nuts? Or would something else work better since the sound hole is so small that firing a tool inside the body would be difficult?

- since the body is so small, can I take the top a little thinner than normal? I'd imagine that any weight I could remove would have a bigger impact on something scaled down like this, but is this true?

Some info on the build: it has a cedar top, mahogany back and sides, and either a mahogany or maple neck (I'll decide later). It has a 17 inch scale length, a 12 inch body length that's 10 1/2 inches wide at the lower bout. The neck joins the body at the 14th fret It's not from any plans, just info found on the web and referencing regular guitar plans I have.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[redir]

I build a very small parlor guitar that could probably be called a Piccolo guitar but it depends on the scale length as far as string tension goes and of course the string gauge. Not so much the size of the instrument. The scale length on mine is 24.3in which is short so it would have a lot less tension then say a 25in length.

[Bass.swimmer]

Sorry I forgot to also add that I'm planning on using extra light to light strings on it. Thanks for being that up!

EDIT: I'm also going to tune it up to the same tuning as the Ibanez piccolo guitar, ADGCEA

[tadol]

Pitch is based on string length, mass, and tension - if you reduce the length, but keep pitch the same, all you have to play with is mass (usually judged by guage) and tension. I recently did a podcast with Richard Hoover discussing many of these things in relation to their strings, which should be available very soon. But a very good read on this is - http://www.noyceguitars.com/technotes/Articles/T3.html

But basically, no, there is not a direct proportional relationship -

[Alan Carruth]

Once you know the string gauges and scale length you can calculate the tension. Keep in mind that you can only go so short at standard tuning; I made one with a 20" scale once, and the strings were so easy to bend in pitch that it was hard to play in tune.

The smaller the span of the top the thinner you can make it all else equal, and the same goes for the bracing. The limiting thing here is stiffness, not strength: guitar tops don't generally break outright, but rather tend to distort over time to the point where the bridge peels up and takes pieces of the top with it. So long as it's stiff enough to stay pretty much 'flat' the top will take the tension. There are ways to calculate that, too, at least to a 'ballpark' number, which is often all you need. You can also measure the deflection under load of the top at various stages of building. There's a fair amount of information out there on deflection testing.

The neat thing about all of this is that as you make it smaller the mass of the top goes down faster than the surface area. With less top to push per square inch that can make sound, the small ones tend to end up having more power than big ones. What you lose, of course, is bass. I often wonder if people think on big guitars as being 'powerful' because of a 'big dog effect': it sounds powerful, even if it's not...

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Bass.swimmer

I've started a new build, a piccolo guitar. I wanted something tiny and easy to play as I recover from surgery. However, I have a few questions:

- what is the average string tension for a tiny guitar like that? Since it's roughly 1/3 the size of a normal guitar, is the tension 1/3 as well?

- should I still use a 3/8" tall bridge (not counting the saddle), or is that too much mass for such a small top?

- what neck joint would you all recommend? Is there enough tension to do a lag screw, or should I use cross dowel nuts? Or would something else work better since the sound hole is so small that firing a tool inside the body would be difficult?

- since the body is so small, can I take the top a little thinner than normal? I'd imagine that any weight I could remove would have a bigger impact on something scaled down like this, but is this true?

Some info on the build: it has a cedar top, mahogany back and sides, and either a mahogany or maple neck (I'll decide later). It has a 17 inch scale length, a 12 inch body length that's 10 1/2 inches wide at the lower bout. The neck joins the body at the 14th fret It's not from any plans, just info found on the web and referencing regular guitar plans I have.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Why not mimic Ibenez's popular piccolo guitar? All the details are pretty much laid out in the ads:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...n-pore-natural

[printer2]

I went down to measure mine, I guess it is a long scale, about 18".



Easily fits in a violin case. Mine is to be a nylon though. I put a screw through the bottom of the heel, you need a flat step in the hole and a screw that does not have a taper which would act as a wedge. I build a 24" scale one out of a fence board, used the same idea and accidentally split the heel temporarily using a regular screw. Was a pain to fix.



The crack is a little visible, I would also recommend putting in a dowel.



I filled the hole afterwards, if you wanted to get fancy the heel cap and hole plug could be the same wood.



With a dowel in the heel you could have the screw in the body but you will have to make sure you have the screw length and neck block size/distance right. To screw it in you can use a ratchet and the proper bit. Not much more for words of wisdom.