Finger stopping or missing string?

Mrsecco · #1 06-11-2021, 03:19 AM

Hello everyone
love this forum and good guitar to all.
I often write here my problems with fingerstyle. Style that I hate so much for the difficulty but the love for fingerstyle songs is getting stronger.
In the past I have already posted and taling various issues, all of which are having good results. I am listening to your advice and the songs are finally getting better and better up to normal speed.
Fortunately today, while I was registering to train, I was able to register a problem that I am often having with my right hand.
In fact it can happen, in the song, that my fingers (even at reduced speed of the song) can: either completely miss the string to touch, OR AS IN THIS CASE, I touch the string with my fingers but then it is as if my fingers was stuck under the picking string, at this point I freeze and can't continue.
I don't know if I can explain: as if the finger had got stuck under the string, thus preventing you from continuing with your right hand.
With the video I show what I mean: (sorry for audio slightly late)
https://youtu.be/WLUf1WDej-4
You can see the video, the mistakes it's in the first 10 seconds
I wanted to ask:
Again, do we have to slow down the song again? change position of the right hand? to perform and are there any exercises on the right hand to touch the strings in a fluid way?
I am curious and interested in any kind of help, hoping to have explained the problem a little

JonPR · #2 06-11-2021, 03:41 AM

It looks like you're playing without fingernails, with the tip of the finger.
That shouldn't be a problem, but what looks to be causing the issue is the way your middle finger is bending back at 0:10.

I think that in turn is caused by your general hand angle. The side of your palm is kind of rocked over towards the bridge, putting your fingers at too much of an angle to the strings.

Either (1) try orthodox classical position, with the wrist above the guitar - a gentle arch from the forearm through to the back of the hand, with the fingertips approaching the strings at right angles from higher above.
Or (2) if you want to keep your wrist resting on the bridge (for bass damping), bring the side of the palm up away from the bridge - again to prevent the middle finger picking at that awkward oblique angle.
IOW, in either case, the flat of the hand should be parallel with the top of the guitar, so the fingertips are at right angles to the strings.

Andy Howell · #3 06-11-2021, 07:10 AM

I have a tendency to do something similar. Knowing the piece well helps and playing not too fast can help as well. But the biggest improvement for me was realising I had my guitar too low down for fingerstyle. When standing the guitar is now positioned higher up my chest. I also now use a strap when playing seating which raises the guitar up a little — a foot stool might do the same thing but I have a habbit of breaking these !!!

For a while I used one of those stands that sticks to your guitar but my main guitar now has a French polish surface and the suckers don't stay stuck.

Try the strap adjustments.

rick-slo · #4 06-11-2021, 08:18 AM

You're picking with finger joints in a somewhat claw like position. For example as in the problem point in your video the distal joint
of the middle finger is bent too much and you are pulling the string as much (or more) upward as you are across and you are then
catching the nail (or skin) on the string. Try a little more pushing through rather than pulling upward on a string.

Mrsecco · #5 06-12-2021, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonPR

It looks like you're playing without fingernails, with the tip of the finger.
That shouldn't be a problem, but what looks to be causing the issue is the way your middle finger is bending back at 0:10.

I think that in turn is caused by your general hand angle. The side of your palm is kind of rocked over towards the bridge, putting your fingers at too much of an angle to the strings.

Either (1) try orthodox classical position, with the wrist above the guitar - a gentle arch from the forearm through to the back of the hand, with the fingertips approaching the strings at right angles from higher above.
Or (2) if you want to keep your wrist resting on the bridge (for bass damping), bring the side of the palm up away from the bridge - again to prevent the middle finger picking at that awkward oblique angle.
IOW, in either case, the flat of the hand should be parallel with the top of the guitar, so the fingertips are at right angles to the strings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

You're picking with finger joints in a somewhat claw like position. For example as in the problem point in your video the distal joint
of the middle finger is bent too much and you are pulling the string as much (or more) upward as you are across and you are then
catching the nail (or skin) on the string. Try a little more pushing through rather than pulling upward on a string.

I think I understand the problem.
The problem occurs when I do the slapping on the strings

In fact if I try to play the part in the video without slapping the part is played perfectly.

it is only when my right hand has to do the slapping on the strings, I have difficulty and the finger I don't know why it goes obliquely and the hand itself has a more shape to do the slapping
But I don't know why and I don't know how to fix it.

If you can help me.

rick-slo · #6 06-13-2021, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrsecco

I think I understand the problem.
The problem occurs when I do the slapping on the strings

In fact if I try to play the part in the video without slapping the part is played perfectly.

it is only when my right hand has to do the slapping on the strings, I have difficulty and the finger I don't know why it goes obliquely and the hand itself has a more shape to do the slapping
But I don't know why and I don't know how to fix it.

If you can help me.

Get your forearm off the face of the guitar. You are crowding close to the strings. Perhaps you tend to do that more when tapping but you don't need to.

Mrsecco · #7 06-14-2021, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Get your forearm off the face of the guitar. You are crowding close to the strings. Perhaps you tend to do that more when tapping but you don't need to.

Maybe because I'm slapping with my whole hand? I'm trying to understand, I've been very sad for days, I can't do that part with slapping.
Does the slapping technique mean only the thumb or the whole hand?
I am trying to understand my problem.
I would like to have a fingerstyle teacher but here in Italy you can't find them

Aimelie · #8 06-14-2021, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrsecco

Maybe because I'm slapping with my whole hand? I'm trying to understand, I've been very sad for days, I can't do that part with slapping.
Does the slapping technique mean only the thumb or the whole hand?
I am trying to understand my problem.
I would like to have a fingerstyle teacher but here in Italy you can't find them

Well, he’s a YouTube’r, but he’s in Italy and an accomplished finger style player with lots and lots of lessons and tutorials (or if you contact him, he may have a teacher suggestion for you):

https://www.youtube.com/c/MarcoCirilloMusic/about

Mrsecco · #9 06-14-2021, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Get your forearm off the face of the guitar. You are crowding close to the strings. Perhaps you tend to do that more when tapping but you don't need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimelie

Well, he’s a YouTube’r, but he’s in Italy and an accomplished finger style player with lots and lots of lessons and tutorials (or if you contact him, he may have a teacher suggestion for you):

https://www.youtube.com/c/MarcoCirilloMusic/about

I understand the problem
My slapping is completely wrong
I have carefully watched the song that I am learning to play, and the thumb of the person who is playing always hits the E
while mine bangs I don't even know where.

I was trying to make the song by doing proper slapping, but now I just can't make the song anymore.

I think I'm about to give up, I can't take it anymore, it all seems too difficult.
When I think I can make a song, something always goes wrong.
I can do the song without slapping, it comes out very well, but it doesn't come complete as I like it.
I feel too denied.

I am too incapable for that.

The youtuber, I don't know him, but he seems like a '' great '' and ''big'' youtuber I don't think he would have time for me.
Also I don't know if he can teach me the style of tommy emmanuel which is what I would like to learn along with slapping techniques and modern pop songs

rick-slo · #10 06-14-2021, 12:50 PM

Don't give up. You will get it down before long. Practice some of the advice you were given.

tdlwhite · #11 06-15-2021, 05:28 AM

That percussive tapping only looks easy for people that have practiced it for a very long time. Yeah, some tapping in between rhythm strumming is 'easy' - just hit your strings anywhere. But in a more complex fingerstyle piece, with tapping, bass notes, and melody - the thumb tap is:

1) Precise in terms of amount of power
2) Accurate in that the thumb strikes the correct string (And there's levels of accuracy: in some pieces you have to hit the A-string or D-string and completely miss the other strings (including the E) to let a note ring).
3) Mechanically different depending on whether you are hitting the thumb down on its own, on a finger pluck, or on a finger push.

And that's ignoring musicality and rhythm.

Don't be fooled by players making it look easy -- you can't magically do 1,2 and 3 above on your first try. It's hours of practice over days/weeks/months/years.

But it's not all doom and gloom! Here's what I would do to get better at it with no teacher:

a) Get the music/tab for a piece - I learned a piece that noted which string to hit with the thumb in the tab.
b) Pay more attention to youtubers that have clear videos and clean style. And slow them down. Some great guitarists on youtube have quite hard-to-follow style, and that makes it hard to tell which string they are hitting.

I know it's nothing like your piece, but check out Dylan Ryche in this video:

https://youtu.be/Ucv2UAMvNCw?t=60

At the minute mark (that I've linked) you can clearly see that he's hitting the A-string with his thumb for the percussive beat. He also tabbed the piece and marked that on the tab.
His tapping is unbelievably clean all the way through that song - a real testament to what hours and hours of practice can achieve!

Tom

Mrsecco · #12 06-15-2021, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdlwhite

That percussive tapping only looks easy for people that have practiced it for a very long time. Yeah, some tapping in between rhythm strumming is 'easy' - just hit your strings anywhere. But in a more complex fingerstyle piece, with tapping, bass notes, and melody - the thumb tap is:

1) Precise in terms of amount of power
2) Accurate in that the thumb strikes the correct string (And there's levels of accuracy: in some pieces you have to hit the A-string or D-string and completely miss the other strings (including the E) to let a note ring).
3) Mechanically different depending on whether you are hitting the thumb down on its own, on a finger pluck, or on a finger push.

And that's ignoring musicality and rhythm.

Don't be fooled by players making it look easy -- you can't magically do 1,2 and 3 above on your first try. It's hours of practice over days/weeks/months/years.

But it's not all doom and gloom! Here's what I would do to get better at it with no teacher:

a) Get the music/tab for a piece - I learned a piece that noted which string to hit with the thumb in the tab.
b) Pay more attention to youtubers that have clear videos and clean style. And slow them down. Some great guitarists on youtube have quite hard-to-follow style, and that makes it hard to tell which string they are hitting.

I know it's nothing like your piece, but check out Dylan Ryche in this video:

https://youtu.be/Ucv2UAMvNCw?t=60

At the minute mark (that I've linked) you can clearly see that he's hitting the A-string with his thumb for the percussive beat. He also tabbed the piece and marked that on the tab.
His tapping is unbelievably clean all the way through that song - a real testament to what hours and hours of practice can achieve!

Tom

thank you very very much for the advice.
In fact, I'm doing some lessons on slapping, from 0.

I wanted to ask you if they look like good videos to learn from:
this is the lesson I'm following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1uXNtotVsg

I would not like to take unnecessary lessons that are of no use for fingerstlye.
How does this video look to you?
Also, the song I'm learning is played by him:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APqOb6qDtLw

and I noticed that he always applies thumb slapping on the E string

But he seems to have a fairly straight thumb

I'm trying to slow down and see what I can do.

I have this problem where if I apply slapping I can't get the strings B and e right with my middle finger
I'm training without losing hope

I hope that I don't give up