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  #31  
Old 06-23-2021, 03:28 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Isaac Guillory was a Cuban American expat singer/guitarist/songwriter living in the UK.
He died, very sadly, on 31st December 2000. We all still miss him.

Why do I mention this here? Because as said in his wiki entry, everywhere he went he eagerly helped, and assisted others.

I have never met anyone who did not like him.

Here is a link to the sort of thing he'd do at Festivals, In 2 x 10 minute sections, there's a whole load of information



https://youtu.be/jQ0HL2-1maQ



https://youtu.be/M79SPfN9z3g

Isaac was the guy that lent me his D35-S and turned me onto 12 fretters.
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I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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  #32  
Old 06-23-2021, 11:40 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Isaac Guillory was a Cuban American expat singer/guitarist/songwriter living in the UK.
He died, very sadly, on 31st December 2000. We all still miss him.

Why do I mention this here? Because as said in his wiki entry, everywhere he went he eagerly helped, and assisted others.

I have never met anyone who did not like him.

Here is a link to the sort of thing he'd do at Festivals, In 2 x 10 minute sections, there's a whole load of information



https://youtu.be/jQ0HL2-1maQ



https://youtu.be/M79SPfN9z3g

Isaac was the guy that lent me his D35-S and turned me onto 12 fretters.
Seems like a born educator, though personally I prefer teachers who speak a little slower just so I can keep up with all that information, though with youtube I think any one still wondering about how to put music theory to practical can slow down youtube videos to take in what this guy was saying , all good stuff and I can't understand why any one would say it's not very usefull to a guitarist to know this sort of thing.
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  #33  
Old 06-23-2021, 12:08 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Isaac was a fast minded highly intelligent guy, for sure, but I think he was pressured by doing this particular workshop in 20 minutes - so not his fault.

ironically, one of his most requested numbers was called "Slow down".



https://youtu.be/ADxTYwJ8lMQ
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Silly Moustache,
Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer.
I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!

Last edited by Silly Moustache; 06-23-2021 at 12:17 PM.
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  #34  
Old 06-23-2021, 12:10 PM
Cloverich Cloverich is offline
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I was in a similar boat a few months back. I picked up "Music Theory - Everythig you wanted to know but were afraid to ask" by Tom Kolb. I'd actually saved the recommendation 2 years prior on the hunch I might eventually get back into guitar. Its awesome. Short and to the point, covers everything quickly (100 pages) and is guitar focused. You'll understand what progressions are, the various (common) chord shapes and how and why they are so named, etc. You'll understand keys and modes and all that. Its a very light workbook, you can listen to the samples and answer some questions, so its not a set of routines to practice. For me it was perfect.

The other thing I've been using is Jake Lizzio's Youtube videos (I also joined his Patreon). His are bite sized lessons on various (guitar centric) theory topics, which are both more in depth and more practical than the book -- he'll directly link each subject to songs or even write a new song based off the idea. Taken as a whole they are also much broader but since you can watch a 10 minute video here and there, its very digestible. His series + the book together have been transformative for me.


Take aways:
- Look up Lizzio, you'll know pretty quick if you like it
- Pick up the book. By page 45 you'll understand what all those chord naming's mean and how they work on the fretboard
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  #35  
Old 06-24-2021, 01:17 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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I remember learning a lot of good practical stuff on chord progressions, song writing improvising over chords etc from a book in my local library called something like 'How to Play Jazz Piano' that was a few decades ago and I have tried to track it down but now there are loads of books with a similar title.
One detail I remember that had nothing to do with the content which would identify it is that there was a few lines in the introduction on 'talent' where the author wrote that he had worked with some of the best musicians in the world but could see nothing that they had in common that might be called 'talent' but that they had all had some kind of introduction to playing music at a young age. If any one recognises that book I'd like to know the author and see if I can find it again?
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  #36  
Old 06-24-2021, 01:25 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Isaac was a fast minded highly intelligent guy, for sure, but I think he was pressured by doing this particular workshop in 20 minutes - so not his fault.

ironically, one of his most requested numbers was called "Slow down".



https://youtu.be/ADxTYwJ8lMQ
That was great, a simple song but he really explored what the guitar can do for it, sorry I never got to see him live he seems like an inspiring personality.
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  #37  
Old 06-24-2021, 02:05 AM
jhm jhm is offline
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Originally Posted by Silurian View Post
So I've been playing on and off for about 13 years. In the last three years I've taken it more seriously. As a consequence my technical skills have improved markedly. I'm no shredder but I can play quickly and fluently and have most of the other technical skills in my toolbox.

The downside is that I know next to nothing about music theory. I've felt this increasingly limiting. So I've bitten the bullet and bought Guitar Theory for Dummies.

Is there anyone else who hasn't got a clue about Dorian and Myxilodian, etc, etc? Anyone like me but not at all interested in learning a bit of theory or feel it wouldn't be beneficial?

Anyone believe that a minimum of theoretical knowledge is required for progress?
I'll drop my 2 cents to you: Do what works for you. Having music theory isn't a necessity to play and enjoy your time with music ...its a bonus

I read tabs, can't read music ...can't be bothered, I consider my overall theory below average. I can fiddle and shred, persistence and enjoyment is all you need (the other stuff, a bonus as far as I'm concerned)
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  #38  
Old 06-24-2021, 04:13 AM
geewhiz geewhiz is offline
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An understanding of at least the fundamentals is absolutely necessary in my opinion.

I've heard or read about some players who say something to the effect of "I don't need or care about music theory - I play by feel and from the heart." While it's true that you need both of those things, and while it's true that there are some very talented players who lack understanding of theory, in my opinion a player who has a disdain for theory is just limiting themselves due to their laziness.

Knowing theory, even at the fundamental level, opens up creative possibilities on the instrument and makes it easier to collaborate with other musicians.

That's not to say that someone who chooses to enjoy the instrument by reading tabs or playing by ear is somehow "inferior". It's all about having fun. But if you're serious about being the best musician you can be, you simply can't disregard music theory.
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  #39  
Old 06-24-2021, 01:33 PM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Playing with an awarness of music theory is not a method that any one adopts as an alternative to playing by ear, tab or notation, it's something that informs and expands your awareness as you play by such methods, I was taught some music theory early on, just enough that given enough time I could teach myself to play, just as well as I had no further lessons for over 20 years but I did seek out book lessons which highlighted theory relevant to the music being taught. It comes in handy for all sorts of things.
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  #40  
Old 06-25-2021, 10:02 AM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
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Originally Posted by Silurian View Post
So I've been playing on and off for about 13 years. In the last three years I've taken it more seriously. As a consequence my technical skills have improved markedly. I'm no shredder but I can play quickly and fluently and have most of the other technical skills in my toolbox.

The downside is that I know next to nothing about music theory. I've felt this increasingly limiting. So I've bitten the bullet and bought Guitar Theory for Dummies.

Is there anyone else who hasn't got a clue about Dorian and Myxilodian, etc, etc? Anyone like me but not at all interested in learning a bit of theory or feel it wouldn't be beneficial?

Anyone believe that a minimum of theoretical knowledge is required for progress?
Honestly, I think the best thing for progress is to play in a manner that you enjoy. The more fun you are having, the more you play and the better you get. The majority of us arent going to be doing this professionally, so my mantra is to find what you like, figure out what you're good at, and concentrate on that. Work a little bit at filling in the gaps.

I wasted more time than I care to think about teaching myself to read music twice, and playing all kinds of scales to a metronome. In the end, since it really had no bearing on the way I like to make music, it all got forgotten.

Anyone want to hazard a guess at how much Robert Johnson worried about theory?
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  #41  
Old 06-25-2021, 01:20 PM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Anyone want to hazard a guess at how much Robert Johnson worried about theory?
I am sure Robert Johnson was aware of the underlying harmonic structure of the blues, ragtime and pop songs of his day , you don't get to be a great musician from being pretty crap apparently in about two years without learning a lot of stuff pretty quick. There does seem to be an assumption that black musicians of that period were too 'primitive' to know what they were doing, seems far more likely to me that the opposite is true and that they tapped into informal education networks.
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  #42  
Old 06-25-2021, 03:50 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Originally Posted by Andyrondack View Post
I am sure Robert Johnson was aware of the underlying harmonic structure of the blues, ragtime and pop songs of his day , you don't get to be a great musician from being pretty crap apparently in about two years without learning a lot of stuff pretty quick. There does seem to be an assumption that black musicians of that period were too 'primitive' to know what they were doing, seems far more likely to me that the opposite is true and that they tapped into informal education networks.
The ear can know much more about music theory than the tongue
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Last edited by rick-slo; 06-25-2021 at 04:07 PM.
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  #43  
Old 06-25-2021, 07:03 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
The ear can know much more about music theory than the tongue
I think Hendrix said somthing to the effect of "Your either born with the blues or you're not" when asked about theory... I imagine Johnson would have said about the same thing. I'm not saying Robert Johnson was too primitive to understand theory, but given his extremely rappid learning curve, I would bet dollars to dougnuts he probably spent less time on theory than I have.
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  #44  
Old 06-26-2021, 02:30 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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The ear can know much more about music theory than the tongue
The kind of music Johnson played is very formulaic, it pretty much all sounds the same cause everyone plays to the same formulas as they relate to intervals and chords.
That's the stuff Johnson would have learned. There's no way that an intelligent young man who desperately wants to become a proffesional musician but happens to be pretty bad at playing guitar is not going to do the smart thing which is to take lessons from the pros arround him and what have they got to teach that would be any use except the formulas of scale tones and chord progressions?
When players are aware of the intervals and chords that they use and the relationships between them then in time through listening to what they play the brain learns to recognise patterns that relate the sounds to the intervals. The 'Tongue' as you call it is how culture is spread and music is a cultural phenomena, otherwise why would anyone take lessons buy books or look at the internet to learn stuff? Are you saying no one should take lessons?
Awareness of the relationships between scale intervals and chords allows the brain to make sense of the sounds made by the hands.
But I expect you learned that a long time ago?
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  #45  
Old 06-26-2021, 08:17 AM
mtdmind mtdmind is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post

Similar to spoken language where children speak for up to 5 years before they begin to read and write, yet they communicate freely, music can be played long before a musician learns note names, and formalizes scales and chord formation [I](melody creation etc).
Hi Larry,
You having been a music major must know of the Suzuki method. He'd observed that kids learn a language before reading and writing and used that concept for teaching music.
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