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  #1  
Old 07-13-2020, 02:55 PM
54TS 54TS is offline
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Default Overwhelming choices for beginner..your thoughts?

Hi everyone.
This is my first post here and I'll try to keep it concise without missing out on the points.
An inch before the start of Lock down here in the UK seemed like a really good time to taste the guitar world that had been coming to the boil for a few years especially as my 13 yr old started to show interest too.
So to put things in perspective a $3500 acoustic is not going to happen any time soon but with very little time and choice available (I think this was the last day the shops were open before everything ground to a halt) I opted for a Fender CD140SCE.
Actually any guitar I reference from here on will be way more capable than myself and daughter for a long while and I'm not disappointed in my choice for me at least. But she is struggling with it's size so along came the GS Mini-e. Very different and also very good of course and my understanding is most feel it has more to offer than the Fender. I was fortunate enough to buy it for her so now there are 2.
But, the bug has hit quite hard and my mind goes over and over about the thinner strings on the Academy 12e and the bevelled arm rest being a good mid ground between the 2. I almost figured that bringing one of those into the house would let us naturally gravitate bigger or smaller as a preference meaning one of the extremes would get left out. Then when we new we would sell one on.
The trouble is, I have really bought into the Taylor ethics but when I go to a guitar shop I feel like I should take the blinkers off. Well I did that a bit.
I also tried to explain to the salesman about the sizes and while he heard me, he dd raise a valid point. He said, "if you are playing on the couch (and I do) you are going to misjudge the size of guitar thats right for you when you get more serious and get out there."
Then sat properly in the store, a Taylor 214SCE was just fine and sounded better.
Then a Martin D-18 ...just fine and better still.
Suddenly I'm a bit over $2300, I've lost sight of that in between sizing quest that was all so important an hour before.
By the way..the electro bit is just for the hell of it, I don't think I need the cut away from a functional aspect but I'm loving features about each guitar I have described here. There were a few others tried out (Eastman, Faith, Takamineand Tanglewood) but I truthfully would like to stick with Taylor or Martin.

Oh boy....I finally Tok a step back to consider what might be my next step but it is overwhelming.
Been there? any help appreciated.
Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2020, 03:34 PM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
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Welcome to the forum.

It sounds like you've outgrown the Fender. That's easy to do. It should also be easy to find something you won't outgrow soon for a whole lot less than a D-18.

You've gotten great advice, by the way, to find a better place for playing guitar than the couch. Short of playing in bed, anywhere else will be an improvement. I suggest trying out a stool. Investing in a firm, wooden stool might move your guitar progress along a bit faster than investing in more expensive guitars.
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Old 07-13-2020, 03:51 PM
DownUpDave DownUpDave is offline
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I always assume “playing on the couch” means playing at home. A proper hard chair or stool is best but plenty of us play actually siting on a couch.

It seems you are looking for the Goldilocks size and that’s not a bad thing. If my math is correct you bought your first guitar less then 6 months ago. You have now fallen under the acoustic spell and naturally figure more and different is better. Many of us have done that. At the risk of getting banished for telling you to play what you got for now........play what you got for now. Sure go into music stores and keep trying out different sizes but don’t let the urge to just buy an in between size make you rush into something
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Old 07-13-2020, 03:56 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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I can't tell you what guitar to buy, but the first thing you should do is set a hard ceiling on your budget, say $1,500 USD, e.g.

Then focus on guitars in legit budget range.
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Old 07-13-2020, 03:59 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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I've been playing for 55 years, so accept my humble opinion.

You were on the right track with the Academy 12 (unless you need the electronics the 12 is going to be $100 cheaper...)

The GS Mini is a great guitar in and of itself, and should meet your couch guitar requirements.

The Academy 12 is the same basic size as the smallest "full size" Taylor in their Grand Concert size. It would be a nice step up in size from the GS Mini, with a longer scale but still in A GC body that's much easier to handle than a dreadnought body. I've played a few Academy 12 models and I think that Taylor is devious in their marketing, producing a hands-down excellent guitar at a bargain basement price to trap you into the Taylor product line. Make no mistake, the Academy 12 is a seriously good guitar at the price point. There are some manufacturing tricks they use to hold the cost down, but that does not make it any less of a great entry-level instrument.

The body bevel is a nice on the Academy, and it was included because the unbound body let Taylor do that pretty much at no additional manufacturing cost. Don't let the string guage influence you. The Academy uses lighter strings but has a longer scale length. The GS Mini has a shorter scale length and uses heavier strings, but it's almost a complete wash as far as the actual tension and feel of the neck. It's easy to look at a specification and assume it's better, but you really have to evaluate the entire reasoning and design of the instrument.

The GS Mini (or the Academy 12) will always be easy to sell later down the road should you decide to move on to something different.

IMHO you should not concentrate in the never-ending pursuit of something a lot better. Staying with a smaller body style right now will encourage you to play more.

Consider your salesperson's credentials before you put too much faith in their attempts to guide you. There's a lot of misinformation available from folks who work in guitar stores. Not always, but don't count on good information coming your way from anyone trying to sell you something.

If you really NEED to spend $1500 (or more) then that's a whole different area to base a purchase on.

Last edited by Rudy4; 07-13-2020 at 04:13 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-13-2020, 04:04 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
I've been playing for 55 years, so accept my humble opinion.

...Consider your salesperson's credentials before you put too much faith in their attempts to guide you. There's a lot of misinformation available from folks who work in guitar stores. Not always, but don't count on good information coming your way from anyone trying to sell you something...
Sage advice.
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Old 07-13-2020, 04:10 PM
jpricewood jpricewood is offline
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Buy a standard Martin or Gibson and be done with it. Otherwise, you’ll spend a lot of time and money continually trading up.
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Old 07-13-2020, 04:11 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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First off, welcome to the madhouse! Secondly, take a few deep breaths. This does not all have to be decided today. Let's sort this out a bit and remain calm..... You don't yet know what you don't know about guitars.

The Fender is a decent entry level solid-top cutaway dreadnought which is fine to start with, and to keep as a "beater" for use when traveling or playing in iffy weather situations. Fender seems to have really upped their acoustic game lately. Most of us still have a beater even after climbing the price ladder. Maybe you have outgrown it, and maybe not. Maybe you need to play sitting in a proper chair instead of slouched on the couch.

You also discussed a Taylor A12, which is their very good entry level Grand Concert (GC or x12) body size. That is roughly equivalent to a Martin size 00. It is a smaller easy to hold guitar with a wonderful armrest bevel and a shorter scale length (easier to play). The GS Mini is more of both factors - smaller body still and an even shorter scale length at 23.5". Neither smaller guitar will have the raw sound power and bass of a dreadnought, if that is a goal. A lot of people love the 214. Any x14 is a Grand Auditorium or GA body size, bigger than the x12 GC body and the same lower bout width as a dreadnought, but with a more pinched waist. You might consider downloading and studying Taylor's guitar buying guide here: https://www.taylorguitars.com/acoust...r-buying-guide
Obviously they will focus on their brand, but there is knowledge to be gained as you study other brands too. Study, take your time, and visit guitar stores as often as you can. I know that is especially challenging right now.

Given that your daughter is interested in guitar too, it is important that you keep two of them -- one for each of you. It will be a bonding experience, and (trust me) you will soon be learning from her. Kids that age with enthusiasm and fewer life distractions learn so much quicker than us adults. Among the dozen or so guitars that we have, there are parlor and travel size, GA's, a dreadnought, and one remaining jumbo. I switch between them depending on my mood and what sounds a particular instrument might do better.
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Old 07-13-2020, 04:14 PM
darylcrisp darylcrisp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
I've been playing for 55 years, so accept my humble opinion.

You were on the right track with the Academy 12 (unless you need the electronics the 12 is going to be $100 cheaper...)

The GS Mini is a great guitar in and of itself, and should meet your couch guitar requirements.

The Academy 12 is the same basic size as the smallest "full size" Taylor in their Grand Concert size. It would be a nice step up in size from the GS Mini, with a longer scale but still in A GC body that's much easier to handle than a dreadnought body. I've played a few Academy 12 models and I think that Taylor is devious in their marketing, producing a hands-down excellent guitar at a bargain basement price to trap you into the Taylor product line. Make no mistake, the Academy 12 is a seriously good guitar at the price point. There are some manufacturing tricks they use to hold the cost down, but that does not make it any less of a great entry-level instrument.

The GS Mini (or the Academy 12) will always be easy to sell later down the road should you decide to move on to something different.

IMHO you should not concentrate in the never-ending pursuit of something a lot better. Staying with a smaller body style right now will encourage you to play more.

Consider your salesperson's credentials before you put too much faith in their attempts to guide you. There's a lot of misinformation available from folks who work in guitar stores. Not always, but don't count on good information coming your way from anyone trying to sell you something.
+1 all the above
the Academy series are excellent instruments period. I've set up a couple now for folks and have been continually impressed with each one. I will say this, find someone who does a good basic setup. What I've found with the Academy series is:
1) typically need some nut slot work-dropping a few or all
2) typically have found 2-5 frets along the fretboard that need a light level and dress
3) adjust truss rod-remove relief, straighten the neck
4)put on some Martin SP or John Pearse 80/20 bronze light gauge strings.
(all these things are standard fare for much any brand/level of cost instrument that I have come thru my shop for setups)

now, for about $75 setup and strings, you'll have a low action, easy playing, tone filled and wonderful playing instrument that can take you anywhere. don't spend your money on higher level instruments until you can go in and play them really well, to determine what sound you want to hear that's inside your head. the Academy will get you there(and then keep it for an outdoor use instrument). they are lightweight, easy to carry in the excellent gigbag provided, and they take a beating.

we have a couple in our praise/worship team and they perform as well as, or sometimes possible better, than multi thousand dollar others that are present.

my 2c
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  #10  
Old 07-13-2020, 04:17 PM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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My advice? Use your currently purchased guitar (if you have done so, it's rather difficult to figure out if you've actually purchased a guitar or are in contemplation)

Use your current guitar and start learning (for you and your 13 year old)

If you haven't purchased, I'd opt for a parlor nylon string for learning for both of you.

Start simple and advance.

J
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Old 07-13-2020, 04:28 PM
Silurian Silurian is offline
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I would play what you have got for now but grasp any opportunity to play other guitars.

As you get more experienced many factors will come into play in determining what guitars you prefer. The physical size of the instrument will be important but not the only factor.
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Old 07-13-2020, 04:36 PM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
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Don't overlook Chinese-made Guilds. D260E dreadnought is US$400...
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Old 07-13-2020, 11:15 PM
54TS 54TS is offline
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Good People of the forum...
Thank you very much for your welcome messages and advice.
I will mull over every reply this evening. Loving the opinions and experience from which threw them my way.
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Old 07-14-2020, 12:09 AM
Rinaz Rinaz is offline
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I spent $3400 on a guitar as a new player. I'm going to upgrade it to BRW which is a better version of what I'm having and then I'm done with buying and selling. 1 main guitar and a 200-$300 to bring it everywhere is good enough
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:39 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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I have often mentioned that money would have been saved by buying my ultimate goal -- a Martin -- right away, instead of working slowly up the food chain. I have even used the phrase, "buy nice or buy twice". However, it is *probably* too soon for you to know what you really want in a guitar for the long run. And keep in mind that there is no such thing as a "lifetime" guitar. I bought one thirty years ago, but my tastes, hearing, playing style, and my hands have changed over time. That Martin guitar is long gone, along with several others. This is a moving target, in other words.

The positive side of spending that kind of money is that a well-known brand name like Martin, Gibson, or Taylor will retain a much higher percentage of its initial price when selling used, and will sell quicker. Many lesser brands lose so much value as to be almost not worth selling. If you can find guitars that you like used, someone has already taken the price hit for "driving it off the lot". Then your reselling will not cost you as much.
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