Thinking of Using My FRFR Speaker Instead of Buying an Amp

[Guithartic]

I know it’s a rehashed topic, but I couldn’t find a specific thread to address my question. I just got a Gibson J-45 with the LR Baggs VTC pickup. I recently got a Fender FR speaker (FR-12), and I have a QSC CP8 powered FRFR speaker. Are any of these options just as good or better than getting an acoustic amp?

1.) Plug the J-45 straight into the Fender FR-12.

2.) plug the J-45 into the QSC CP8 (powered FRFR speaker).

3.) Plug the J-45 into the Universal Audio Dream ‘65 (amp/cab modeler), and plug that into the Fender FR-12 or QSC CP-8.

4.) Surprise Zinger: Plug the J-45 into my Boss Katana 50 MK-II on the Acoustic mode.

[JimLin]

I have the Fender FR-12 and use it with a Friedman IR-X pedal on my pedal board for my electric guitar setup. It sounds great for that application

I briefly experimented with the Fender FR-12 with an acoustic equipped with a Baggs element pickup, and found the amp did not have enough volume available for a live setting. It sounded much better when I used a Boss AD-10 pedal as a preamp. However, when I compared the Fender amp to an EV ZL-X 12 powered speaker, I preferred the EV speaker.

[jonfields45]

I definitely vote FRFR for an active pickup with its own tone controls. That’s my choice and I’ve had a CP8 for 5 years and no acoustic amp in a long time.

If you’ve got a full featured pedal on the floor the extra amp controls are annoyingly redundant.

With the CP8 it’s important to me to have the backside EQ selection set to flat on a pole and monitor when on the floor upright or wedged.

[Rumblefish]

In general, I find a good powered speaker superior to an acoustic amp. The reasons why one may prefer an amp come down to features for the most part.
Built-in effects, and EQ mainly. They're also voiced for acoustic guitars and can be easier to use if you don't have a lot of experience with audio gear. More plug-and-play than a powered speaker.

A powered speaker has fewer options in most cases and may require some further EQ than just what your pickup system offers. I have a preamp that I use in front of a speaker or PA, not necessarily for the signal boost, but for the sweepable mid-EQ, notch filter, and boost function. An amp often has those built in.

So why don't I prefer an amp? I find a modular system more versatile, and a quality powered speaker to have better coverage. Amps are more directional and don't throw as far in my experience. What may sound great when you're right next to it, drops off quickly as you get further from the source. I have a tiny pedalboard with my preamp, a reverb/delay pedal, and a compressor. I can plug that into any system and get the sound I like and I can add additional pedals if I'm ever in a situation where it's needed. I did a few gigs with a songwriter who had a couple of Waylon-influenced tunes, so I threw a phaser on the board. I can use this board at home into my audio interface, a small FRFR, or my studio monitors, and into a QSC 10 for small gigs, or 2 QSC 12s for larger gigs. I also some have control over my sound when using a house system. I can just bring my instruments and pedal board to most gigs.

This is merely my experience and I've known plenty of players who love their acoustic amps. It will always come down to your use case and what you're comfortable with.

All that aside, the new Taylor amp looks very nice

[nostatic]

What sound are you looking for? The Dream will sound like you're plugging into a Deluxe Reverb, which is typically *not* what acoustic guitar players are looking for (but some are). The Katana is similar, but the acoustic setting will be closer to an "acoustic amp."

As others have noted, it comes down to how much control you want/need over the sound. I have run acoustics direct into K8/K10 cabs but I always felt that I needed more control over gain staging and eq. I would imagine the same with the Fender FR.

I usually gig with a dedicated acoustic amp (Henriksen Bud 10) mostly for ease of use (small, light, sounds good and covers guitar and vox). I still bring a small pedal board with a few effects that I use as well as a really good parametric eq if I need to tweak things on the fly.

At the end of the day, just try each option you have and see what you like. Some guys love running FR speakers.

[Guithartic]

Originally Posted by JimLin

I have the Fender FR-12 and use it with a Friedman IR-X pedal on my pedal board for my electric guitar setup. It sounds great for that application

I briefly experimented with the Fender FR-12 with an acoustic equipped with a Baggs element pickup, and found the amp did not have enough volume available for a live setting. It sounded much better when I used a Boss AD-10 pedal as a preamp. However, when I compared the Fender amp to an EV ZL-X 12 powered speaker, I preferred the EV speaker.

I know, that FR-12 with the Dream ‘65 is fantastic. I’m trying to have less amps while still having good tone for the acoustic. The Boss AD-10 would be smaller than a whole other dedicated acoustic amp, but it’s over $400 and has a lot of knobs. I wonder how the Boss AD-1 preamp would be with the FR-12 or the QSC CP-8 powered FRFR speaker.

[Guithartic]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I definitely vote FRFR for an active pickup with its own tone controls. That’s my choice and I’ve had a CP8 for 5 years and no acoustic amp in a long time.

With the CP8 it’s important to me to have the backside EQ selection set to flat on a pole and monitor when on the floor upright or wedged.

Thanks. I'm going to add another option for others to see.

[Guithartic]

Getting good ideas here.

[Guithartic]

Originally Posted by Guithartic

Thanks. I'm going to add another option for others to see.

I forgot to mention that I have a Roland KC-80 that I use with my keyboard. I wonder if those are any good for an acoustic guitar. Do you know anything about those? I know I should just play through it and see, but I have to admit, I think I don't have a good ear for this sort of thing. If I can hear the guitar and melody, it all seems pretty OK to me. I'm hoping to get other's ideas so at least others will be able to hear a better sound.

[Guithartic]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I definitely vote FRFR for an active pickup with its own tone controls. That’s my choice and I’ve had a CP8 for 5 years and no acoustic amp in a long time.

Originally Posted by Rumblefish

In general, I find a good powered speaker superior to an acoustic amp.

A powered speaker has fewer options in most cases and may require some further EQ than just what your pickup system offers.

Originally Posted by nostatic

What sound are you looking for? The Dream will sound like you're plugging into a Deluxe Reverb, which is typically *not* what acoustic guitar players are looking for (but some are). The Katana is similar, but the acoustic setting will be closer to an "acoustic amp."
I have run acoustics direct into K8/K10 cabs but I always felt that I needed more control over gain staging and eq.

I forgot to mention that I have a Roland KC-80 that I use with my keyboard. I wonder if those are any good for an acoustic guitar. Do you know anything about those? I know I should just play through it and see, but I have to admit, I think I don't have a good ear for this sort of thing. If I can hear the guitar and melody, it all seems pretty OK to me. I'm hoping to get other's ideas so at least others will be able to hear a better sound.

[edward993]

1. Pet Peeve of mine is a PA speaker is not necessarily a "FRFR." So while you may call the CP8 whatever you like, the bottom line is every PA speaker has its own coloration, and the more one pays the more "flat" or "uncolored" it is, especially when pushed louder toward its peak SPL. Sorry, that was my side note.

2. To the question: use the CP8. I almost always prefer a PA speaker over acoustic amps (given similar price tiers of course) for the reason implied above: "flat" response that colors tone the least. Guitar amps don't do this as well --even dedicated acoustic guit amps-- as PA speakers do ...of decent quality, that is; and the CP series is absolutely of decent+ quality.

3. Scalable: as already mentioned, a good PA speaker offers one a scalable system that can be expanded or minimized depending on venue size and gig type. This ability to grow/shrink is a PA's massive plus over an amp which will always be just an amp of that wattage and size. That you already own one CP8 means you are already more than halfway there!

4. To maximize your overall versatility with a PA speaker, get a small analog mixer of decent quality. This will allow you to set gain and EQ guitar and vox properly for the best-sounding live tone, as well as allow you to add instruments and/or vocals at will. And you want something to EQ vocals! No need to spend a mint here (go digital if you wanna get crazy), but don't go cheap, either; buying used is your friend as lots of folks start here only to upgrade later, so your gain! Fwiw, lots here in the analog world of compact mixers, but I use the Allen&Heath Zeds and old Mackie VLZ3s and these are stellar workhorses that wont break the bank: tough, reliable, and sound great!

Food for thought for ya! Hope this helps you a bit

Edward

[BlueStarfish]

I would think that the QSC speaker would be as good, and likely better, than the speaker on all but the most high-end of acoustic amps.

That said, acoustic amps have built-in preamp and mixing features that are not present in the QSC. Going straight in from your guitar to a powered speaker is not ideal. A Fishman Loudbox (a nice mid-range accoustic amp) for example would give you two channels of combo mic/line input/passive instrument preamp, solid EQ section, and very usable onboard effects including the all-important reverb. Plus nice DI-out if you need to send a signal to FOH. Perfect for solo act guitar + vox.

So what you need to fill in is the missing functionality. For your guitar, a good all-in-one floor pedal like the Boss AD-10, Fishman ToneDeq, or similar would do it. I have the AD-10 and it would do everything you need and also provide plenty of additional options as your needs grow.

If you also sing, and aren’t singing through a separate PA system provided by the band or house, you will need something to handle your mic channel as well. You might instead start with a small portable mixer that can handle both guitar and vocals, and has on-board FX with reverb. Plug both your guitar and mic into the mixer. You might still choose to add a foot pedal later, to give additional options, but a small portable mixer isn’t a bad place to start. A small 6-channel mixer would also serve you well if you find yourself in a situation where you prefer to play only with stage mics, no pickup.

[Guithartic]

Originally Posted by edward993

1. Pet Peeve of mine is a PA speaker is not necessarily a "FRFR." So while you may call the CP8 whatever you like, the bottom line is every PA speaker has its own coloration, and the more one pays the more "flat" or "uncolored" it is, especially when pushed louder toward its peak SPL. Sorry, that was my side note.

2. To the question: use the CP8. I almost always prefer a PA speaker over acoustic amps (given similar price tiers of course) for the reason implied above: "flat" response that colors tone the least. Guitar amps don't do this as well --even dedicated acoustic guit amps-- as PA speakers do ...of decent quality, that is; and the CP series is absolutely of decent+ quality.

3. Scalable: as already mentioned, a good PA speaker offers one a scalable system that can be expanded or minimized depending on venue size and gig type. This ability to grow/shrink is a PA's massive plus over an amp which will always be just an amp of that wattage and size. That you already own one CP8 means you are already more than halfway there!

4. To maximize your overall versatility with a PA speaker, get a small analog mixer of decent quality. This will allow you to set gain and EQ guitar and vox properly for the best-sounding live tone, as well as allow you to add instruments and/or vocals at will. And you want something to EQ vocals! No need to spend a mint here (go digital if you wanna get crazy), but don't go cheap, either; buying used is your friend as lots of folks start here only to upgrade later, so your gain! Fwiw, lots here in the analog world of compact mixers, but I use the Allen&Heath Zeds and old Mackie VLZ3s and these are stellar workhorses that wont break the bank: tough, reliable, and sound great!

Food for thought for ya! Hope this helps you a bit

Edward

Originally Posted by BlueStarfish

I would think that the QSC speaker would be as good, and likely better, than the speaker on all but the most high-end of acoustic amps.

That said, acoustic amps have built-in preamp and mixing features that are not present in the QSC. Going straight in from your guitar to a powered speaker is not ideal. A Fishman Loudbox (a nice mid-range accoustic amp) for example would give you two channels of combo mic/line input/passive instrument preamp, solid EQ section, and very usable onboard effects including the all-important reverb. Plus nice DI-out if you need to send a signal to FOH. Perfect for solo act guitar + vox.

So what you need to fill in is the missing functionality. For your guitar, a good all-in-one floor pedal like the Boss AD-10, Fishman ToneDeq, or similar would do it. I have the AD-10 and it would do everything you need and also provide plenty of additional options as your needs grow.

If you also sing, and aren’t singing through a separate PA system provided by the band or house, you will need something to handle your mic channel as well. You might instead start with a small portable mixer that can handle both guitar and vocals, and has on-board FX with reverb. Plug both your guitar and mic into the mixer. You might still choose to add a foot pedal later, to give additional options, but a small portable mixer isn’t a bad place to start. A small 6-channel mixer would also serve you well if you find yourself in a situation where you prefer to play only with stage mics, no pickup.

Yes, I think I’m understanding how this works. I think I’m going to sell the Roland and Boss Katana amps (i’m trying to have less bulk in the home office as well) and get a little mixer or something like the Boss AD-2, Boss AD-10, or Boss VE-8 to use with the CP8. I’m thinking the mixer would be the most versatile, as I could use it with my keyboard and electric guitars too. Or if it’s me playing with someone else singing. Thanks for the ideas.