Internal mic vs external mic

[idimata]

Originally Posted by Schertler

Sharing personal 10-years experience with pickups, mics, preamps .....
After all promising ideas and wishes, everything always goes to a budget in the end, and your time spent with experimenting. Well, the microphones are the only devices used for the best and true reproduction and recording tasks, the various pickup types and systems are just a compromise, however many of that compromise-type units cost as much as some old cars.......
If you are in the very beginning of searching for the most preferred option, I would recommend starting with little electret mic capsules by Oktava the MKE-3. These 12mm ECM capsules do cost some $1-10 and sound truly incredible in the body of steel-string acoustics! I have tested almost all available around ECM capsules manufactured under the latest technologies but nothing comes any close to MKE-3. I liked the specs and reviews on to the Japanese PRIMO and American PUI AUDIO capsules but I could not test them as they are not available over here, and being over-satisfied by MKE-3 I did not wish to spend more time and money for the further experiments....
Moreover, as others have noted above, not all mics work good in the body of the instrument, even expensive models, so no guarantee, you can buy $1000 mic capsule but may not get what you were expecting of !!
Cutting the costs on the pickup system would save you budget for buying a decent quality instrument!

This is MKE-5B my basic internal mic built-in into all my instruments:

Sir, do you still hold this opinion of this internal mic in (at the end of) 2023?

[idimata]

Originally Posted by guitarman68

Sometimes I use an external mic on a boom stand, most of the times I use an internal mic. Thirty years experience with dual source systems using Highlander IP-2, D-TAR, Sunrise/AKG, Baggs, Fishman Rare Earth Blend (I loved it and used it for more than ten years). Always trying to dial in as much mic as possible (up to 50/50). The first internal mic I really liked was the K&K Trinity, which to my ears sounded more realistic compared to the above mentioned while being more feedback resistant. These days I mostly use DPA 4061 - pretty expensive but you can find them used and reasonable prices. A tad more detailed compared to the K&K, which IMO still is an incredible fine sounding mic for the money.
High Pass Filter (HPF) is king when using internal mics.
I like the sound of the internal mic and even used it sometimes when recording.
I also own a ToneDexter (great piece of gear) but still prefer a real mic.

Just a note:
I have a Mimesis Kudos on order. This humbucker/mic combo pickup is designed by Mike Vanden, who designed the Fishman Rare Earth and sold it to Fishman.
I'll report back.

Can you tell me more about your DPA 4061? What connector does it use, does it go into an end-pin jack that has a TRS female connector? Or is it XLR? What preamp or phantom power source do you use with it??

[guitarman68]

The DPA4061 is soldered to the endpin jack - very thin cables on that mic, so I let the soldering do an experienced repairman. I combine it with Dazzo soundboard transducers (two elements). Both signals are blended 50/50 through a Grace Felix preamp, no EQ on the pickup, high pass filter set at 200 Hz on the DPA4061. That gives me the best live sound I had so far.

[SimplyLuo]

Originally Posted by guitarman68

Sometimes I use an external mic on a boom stand, most of the times I use an internal mic. Thirty years experience with dual source systems using Highlander IP-2, D-TAR, Sunrise/AKG, Baggs, Fishman Rare Earth Blend (I loved it and used it for more than ten years). Always trying to dial in as much mic as possible (up to 50/50). The first internal mic I really liked was the K&K Trinity, which to my ears sounded more realistic compared to the above mentioned while being more feedback resistant. These days I mostly use DPA 4061 - pretty expensive but you can find them used and reasonable prices. A tad more detailed compared to the K&K, which IMO still is an incredible fine sounding mic for the money.
High Pass Filter (HPF) is king when using internal mics.
I like the sound of the internal mic and even used it sometimes when recording.
I also own a ToneDexter (great piece of gear) but still prefer a real mic.

Just a note:
I have a Mimesis Kudos on order. This humbucker/mic combo pickup is designed by Mike Vanden, who designed the Fishman Rare Earth and sold it to Fishman.
I'll report back.

Did you end up trying the Mimesis Kudos? I've been curious about it but there's not much online about it.

[guitarman68]

Originally Posted by SimplyLuo

Did you end up trying the Mimesis Kudos? I've been curious about it but there's not much online about it.

Thanks for the reminder - I simply forgot , sorry !
The Mimesis Kudos sounds great, but I'm not sure if it sounds much better than other magnetic sound hole pickups I used or tried. I'm planning to do a comparison vid of various sound hole magnetics: Sunrise, Mimesis Kudos, K&K Double Helix, Mojotone.
I will post it here as soon as it's ready, hopefully during the next week.

[SimplyLuo]

Originally Posted by guitarman68

Thanks for the reminder - I simply forgot , sorry !
The Mimesis Kudos sounds great, but I'm not sure if it sounds much better than other magnetic sound hole pickups I used or tried. I'm planning to do a comparison vid of various sound hole magnetics: Sunrise, Mimesis Kudos, K&K Double Helix, Mojotone.
I will post it here as soon as it's ready, hopefully during the next week.

Thanks, will look forward to it! Did you get the version with the built-in mic or the version intended for use with the DPA mics?
I'm curious how it compares to the Fishman Blackstack, which was also designed by Mike Vanden and at least visually looks similar. I currently have Dazzos and a Black Angel magnetic pickup and was thinking about adding an internal mic. The Mimesis Kudos, being an active pickup with power for the mic, might simplify things.

Wish I kept my DPA 4061... sold it ~7 years ago here for $140 or so.

[guitarman68]

I have the inbuilt mic - version of the Mimesis Kudos.
Tomorrow a Monotone will arrive and I will start my comparison.

[Eastbound]

I've used both and an prefer external mic combined with pick up. With the external, you can "work" the mic by changing the distance. If you're playing a heavy handed rhythm, you can back off some. When taking a break, lean in some for more volume. With an internal mic, you take away this dynamic

[Schertler]

Originally Posted by idimata

Sir, do you still hold this opinion of this internal mic in (at the end of) 2023?

Sure! This little ECM capsule by Oktava is a real pickup/mic killer, and this costs just pennies.....

[lkingston]

One thing I would say is that a sound hole cover really helps when you have an internal mic.