12 Fret OM Size Martin?

[pegleghowell]

Yep,as a few have mentioned,those Norman Blake models are very nice,hard to find though.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by zmf

Yeah, but it's a potbellied 000 with the bridge way down. Not something Martin often does. In other words, it's not the typical Martin 000-xx.

That’s not true at all. Some manufacturers make their 12 fret guitars by largely shortening the neck and sliding the bridge back, Martin, on the other hand, elongates the upper bout more and the bridge hardly moves at all. Look at the Norman Blake guitar by comparison—a guitar that IS defined, in part, by lower bridge placement. It’s unique in that it’s a 14 fret body on a 12 fret neck. The bridge is slid way down into the lower bout to compensate for the smaller upper bout. Then compare an OM and the 000-28vs—much different from the Blake—bridge is in almost the same place relative to the tail block.

OP is looking for a standard scale 000/OM size guitar with a rosewood back and Martin tone. The Martin 000-28VS literally checks all those boxes. And they sound wonderful. (So does the Authentic 000-30, actually, for a lot more coin.). All the online reviews testify to that as well.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

The Martin 000-28VS literally checks all those boxes.

Didn't mean to give the impression that I don't agree with this. I'm a big fan of the 000-28VS.

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

Martin 000-28VS fits the bill.

Those are actually standard scale like the OMs, but Martin called them 000s for other reasons. Nothing beats a good 12 fretter!

...an OM is a square shouldered design...although a Martin 000 might be a square shouldered design...but when it is it has 14 frets to the body and a shorter scale ...a 12 fret OM would be a very rare bird...I’reckon it messes with the bridge placement too much...still I have to think someone has made one...

EDIT...I just googled 12 fret OM and indeed Larrivée makes the OM 40....and Blueridge makes one too...but no sign of a Martin 12 fret OM...

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

...an OM is a square shouldered design...although a Martin 000 might be a square shouldered design...but when it is it has 14 frets to the body and a shorter scale ...a 12 fret OM would be a very rare bird...I’reckon it messes with the bridge placement too much...still I have to think someone has made one...

EDIT...I just googled 12 fret OM and indeed Larrivée makes the OM 40....and Blueridge makes one too...but no sign of a Martin 12 fret OM...

It’s only two pages. Just read above.

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

Martin 000-28VS fits the bill.

Those are actually standard scale like the OMs, but Martin called them 000s for other reasons. Nothing beats a good 12 fretter!

Originally Posted by zoopeda

It’s only two pages. Just read above.

...my bad...

[raysachs]

Harder to find in an OM, but if he's open to an 000 or 00, Ted out at LA Guitars is always running custom orders for 12 fret 00 and 000 18 models and 00-15. Or there's the production 000-15SM, which is kind of like a 12 fret OM because it does have the 25.4" scale. Great sounding guitar too, if you like a really warm mahogany sound. I haven't looked at what Ted has in stock at the moment - might be sparse because of the pandemic, but when things are normal he usually has a few of those to pick from, either in stock or within a couple of months of his next order showing up.

-Ray

[L20A]

Thank you all for your suggestions and input.
I used the term OM just as a size reference.

What we are looking for is a smaller body guitar with a shorter neck.
Rosewood is a high priority for my friend but he may have to look at Mahogany for more available models to choose from.

Our thinking is that a smaller guitar with a shorter neck will help with his shoulder pain.

Not his picking thumb is a whole other issue.

[Fresh1985]

A used Martin 000-28vs would be my choice. Bit of a hefty neck though so would have to be ok with that.

Check out some live youtube clips of Jack Savoretti who plays the same model.

Or if you want smaller theres the 00-28vs which is shorter scale and slightly bigger nut.

[Greenstar]

Originally Posted by pagedr

Martin 000-28VS is the first one that pops into my head in that size that's 12 frets to the body and has rosewood b/s. Honestly I'm not sure there have been any other production guitars from Martin (other than vintage models) that fit this criteria. He might want to browse Reverb for custom orders. If he's open to mahogany b/s the 000-17SM is a great 12 fret 000 at a good price when available.

SoundPure, in NC, has one for sale on their website. I was looking at it earlier. Seems like a pretty good price as well.

[Fatfinger McGee]

Originally Posted by L20A

Thank you all for your suggestions and input.
I used the term OM just as a size reference.

What we are looking for is a smaller body guitar with a shorter neck.
Rosewood is a high priority for my friend but he may have to look at Mahogany for more available models to choose from.

Our thinking is that a smaller guitar with a shorter neck will help with his shoulder pain.

Not his picking thumb is a whole other issue.

If it's left shoulder pain and it's in the rotator cuff like mine, the 12-fret makes a lot more difference for me than the body size. If so, that might help open up the search window as well.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by L20A

Thank you all for your suggestions and input.
I used the term OM just as a size reference.

What we are looking for is a smaller body guitar with a shorter neck.
Rosewood is a high priority for my friend but he may have to look at Mahogany for more available models to choose from.

Our thinking is that a smaller guitar with a shorter neck will help with his shoulder pain.

Not his picking thumb is a whole other issue.

So you may be aware of this, but an all mahogany guitar is in another tonal universe from spruce on rosewood. I’ve had an all hog 000-15sm (12-fret) and a Martin spruce rosewood OM. They’re both wonderful but really sound nothing alike. Can I ask, what is it about the 000-28VS that makes you think he’ll need more options? That’s pretty much the ticket, based on your criteria. Mahogany isn’t going to help much here. For whatever reason, Martin really hasn’t been producing OM-18, which the exception of the discontinued 14 fret authentic. They don’t do a mahogany version of the 000-28VS. (Maybe for good reason, I personally feel that smaller body guitars benefit from a rich sounding rosewood body. Smaller mahogany spruce Martins sound a bit plain by comparison, although they have their fans as well.)

I agree with above, the 12-fret 000 is an amazingly comfortable guitar vs a 14-fret dread—both on the shoulders and wrists.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by L20A

Thank you all for your suggestions and input.
I used the term OM just as a size reference.

What we are looking for is a smaller body guitar with a shorter neck.
Rosewood is a high priority for my friend but he may have to look at Mahogany for more available models to choose from.

Our thinking is that a smaller guitar with a shorter neck will help with his shoulder pain.

Not his picking thumb is a whole other issue.

Im surprised to not see a Collings 00 suggested.
My 00 with rosewood b/s generates similar energy to that of my 000 Martin.
The Collings is a notably lighter build than my Martin.

[blindboyjimi]

He really should be looking at a 000-28NB. It is short scale but much more comfortable than a 000-28VS. The VS is essentially an OM with the upper bout elongated to cover frets 14 and 13 so if you closed your eyes the guitar would feel like an OM to his shoulders. The NB is actually 2 frets shorter so your shoulder feels like you are capo’d at the 2nd fret. The NB is much more comfortable. I’ve had 2 18NBs and one 28NB. There are 2 28NBs for sale right now. There were 134 18NBs and about 350 28NBs including the 52 or so NBBs (Norman Blake Brazilian). Here is a photo of a Borges OM, the 18NB, and a 12 fret long scale Sexauer 000-12c. Notice how short the NB is and that the OM and 000-12 are essentially the same reach when playing in 1st position.
IMG_0642.jpg

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by L20A

My bandmate is looking at the possibility of getting a smaller guitar to help reduce pain when playing.
I suggested an OM 12 fret or equivalent.
His preference is Rosewood b and s non cutaway

He is a Martin kind of guy so it needs to be a Martin as a first choice.
He could possibly be talked into trying other top makers if he can't find the right Martin.

What are some choices for him?

The term "OM" (orchestra model) defines the chsnge from 12 fret OOO to the long skinny necked 14 fret design.

If you friend wants the wider necked original desgn, then he should seek out an original 000 such as the recently discontinued 00028vs, although I'd suggest the Collings 0002h if the budget allows.

However, if he is changing from a dreadnought, then he would need to play with light guage rather than mediums.