Gibson '14 - leaner, meaner, and lighter on your wallet...

[Steve DeRosa]

Just came across some interesting things in store for 2014 over at the Gibson website:

http://www2.gibson.com/Gibson-USA-2014.aspx

If these are in fact the new MSRP's (in many cases comparable to - or less than - street prices for the current lineup) the $499 entry-level USA-made SGJ will come in at ~$350 out the door - about the same as a Chinese/Indonesian Epiphone G-400, and the lowest price I've seen on an American SG in over 30 years - and with the 30" scale SG Special (nee Faded) Bass at $699 list (under $500 street - much of which goes for the included HSC) there doesn't appear to be much of a future for the neither-fish-nor-fowl, long-scale Epi EB-3. While they attribute their new pricing to innovative design/manufacturing techniques (and every instrument now gets a factory Plek job - great news for Gibson fans), Epiphone is now forced to compete against the parent company on its own merits as it did in the 1960's. Although a move to Japanese (and later Korean) production allowed survival of the brand as a high-quality budget line through the last quarter of the 20th century, they can no longer serve as Gibson's skunkworks as they did during their Kalamazoo days (IMO some of the era's most intriguing instruments - the Professional guitar/amp combo, Howard Roberts, Emperor thinline, Al Caiola, among others - bore the Epiphone logo); neither do they have the wherewithal to compete on the basis of reputation as they did when Ted McCarty first bought out the New York operation - the jazz players who built the Epi name in the '30s-50s have since passed from the scene, and other than the archtop collector market the name is presently regarded as a budget marque. Since the forthcoming Gibson lineup cuts deep into Epi's customary market, I can't help but wonder where this is all going: Epiphone's eventual return to (North) American manufacture as Gibson's entry-level line (perhaps by way of Canada/Mexico a la Fender/Taylor/Larrivee - or their own short-lived flirtation with Garrison), mothballing the name as a way to get out of Pac-Rim production with its attendant political/legal difficulties (read forgeries produced in/shipped from dedicated Epi facilities - I've seen the photos), or outright divestiture (most likely to a Pac-Rim concern, should this play out)...

2014 looks to be quite a year, folks...

[The Growler]

Some of those basses look interesting. A 5 string EB and the Midtown both are attractive....

[Dru Edwards]

The Les Paul LPJ, shown as $699 on this link, was on sale for $499 at Long & McQuade the past couple of days for their Black Friday sale. It was really tempting to go check one out.

[J Patrick]

...it s great to see Gibson stepping up to the plate and offering some American made instruments that can compete with imports...i wish them success...nothing against imports but our country needs to start making their own stuff again..

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by The Growler

Some of those basses look interesting. A 5 string EB and the Midtown both are attractive....

Both of those have been around for a while, albeit in different form in the case of the Midtown - this version looks like a 3/4-size Epiphone Jack Casady/Gibson LP Signature (and why they didn't produce it with a 30" scale in the name of better physical/aesthetic balance is beyond me). The big news here is the massive price drops across the line (check out the full price list on the Gibson website); while there are some exceptions at the high end, most of their bread-and-butter instruments now feature MSRP's comparable to current street prices (look for the ones that say "Starting at $xxx"). More good news for the true Gibson aficionado is that there are some hollow/semi-hollow models easing their way into the low-price lineup (ES-335/339 Studio, Midtown Kalamazoo, ES-139/195) - this could really start to get interesting over the next few months...

I feel a GAS attack coming on...

[The Growler]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Both of those have been around for a while, albeit in different form in the case of the Midtown - this version looks like a 3/4-size Epiphone Jack Casady/Gibson LP Signature (and why they didn't produce it with a 30" scale in the name of better physical/aesthetic balance is beyond me). The big news here is the massive price drops across the line (check out the full price list on the Gibson website); while there are some exceptions at the high end, most of their bread-and-butter instruments now feature MSRP's comparable to current street prices (look for the ones that say "Starting at $xxx"). More good news for the true Gibson aficionado is that there are some hollow/semi-hollow models easing their way into the low-price lineup (ES-335/339 Studio, Midtown Kalamazoo, ES-139/195) - this could really start to get interesting over the next few months...

I feel a GAS attack coming on...

I have a Gibson LP double cut bass and I love it with the 34"scale, however I can see why some think the body looks small at that scale length.

The Midtown looks good to me! I'm looking forward to seeing one and trying it out in person. Pelham blue? That'll work.

[Steve DeRosa]

Kinda makes you wonder though, about the whole Gibson price structure since Henry J. and his boys took the helm. Just a few recent examples:

• A $150 or more upcharge for goldtop finish on the lower-line LP's - last I heard opaque finishes were used to cover cosmeticallly inferior wood
• The Kirk Franklin model, basically a '67 SG Custom with a cherry finish and a couple minor electronic/cosmetic tweaks, selling at $1499 street - when the last non-VOS SG Custom labeled as such sold for ~$4K
• Not too long ago, the B.B. King Lucille model - basically a mildly customized ES-355, the top of the semi-solid line for many years - sold for a few hundred less than a no-frills 335
• The Les Paul 'burst reissue "dating game" - a '59 in comparable-quality woods outprices the '58/60 versions

I've done a little checking around since my OP, and it looks the new MSRP's will in fact be the street prices - better in some cases than presently, but I frankly don't like the potential for abuse here. Back in the early "comeback" days Gibson marketed a model called the 335 Studio, a double-pickup semi that looked like Lucille's plain older sister (opaque finishes/single binding/no f-holes) and played like the big-buck boxes, for around $600 street w/HSC; shortly after the new regime took office it was hastily discontinued - followed by a whopping price hike (in excess of 40% as I recall) on the nearly-identical standard-issue 335. I'd hate to think that this is some sort of end run around the outlawed "fair trade" pricing prevalent in the consumer audio industry during the '70s - as in "sell for full list price or lose the franchise"; there's been some great stuff coming out of Gibson in the last decade or so, especially in terms of affordable models for the working Joe/Jane - and in view of other unfortunate events, it would be a shame to see everything gambled on such an ill-advised move...

[fazool]

I have been a rabid Gibson devotee for my whole playing life. I've owned four Gibson electrics. One was a very vintage 1956 ES-225T, two were 1980 Sonex 180 Customs and one was a 2012 LP Jr Deluxe.

Granted these are all their "entry" level model electrics, but comparably speaking the 2012 was the worst quality of all. The fit and finish was OK, but the action, feel and playability was awful and the sound was worse.

I went back and bought my second 1980 Sonex (with coil-tapped Shaw zebra dirty fingers p/u's) and was floored by the better sound over the 2012 model.

I had such a bad experience with the 2012 I don't know if I would ever buy a new Gibson again, as much as I am a rabid Gibson fan and can now afford any of the better ones. I'll keep trying them at my local GC's but am very wary of any Gibson post 1985.

[David Eastwood]

Interesting analysis, Steve.

I think Gibson marketing has been pursuing a ready-fire-aim 'strategy' for several years, with what must be incredibly costly excursions into high-tech crap that never reaches second-generation, because no-one wants it in the first place.

Just a glance at any Musician's Friend catalogue raises many similar questions to the ones you just posed.

[Eric_M]

The prices on that Gibson link match up with what Musician's Friend is selling them for, so I'd say those are "street prices," not MSRP.

[Steve DeRosa]

It's been confirmed: for 2014 - and in spite of GC's postings to the contrary in their individual product listings - MSRP = street price:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-2...50&icid=400900

While some of the prices are indeed lower - I might just pick up a new SGJ, or an SG Special bass as a backup (and that Midtown Kalamazoo looks tempting) - a lot of this is, unfortunately, just smoke and mirrors, and it looks like it's spreading across the entire lineup...

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by The Growler

...The Midtown looks good to me! I'm looking forward to seeing one and trying it out in person....

Have your checkbook/credit card handy:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BAMSBGCH-14

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by fazool

I have been a rabid Gibson devotee for my whole playing life. I've owned four Gibson electrics.

Granted these are all their "entry" level model electrics, but comparably speaking the 2012 was the worst quality of all. The fit and finish was OK, but the action, feel and playability was awful and the sound was worse.

I had such a bad experience with the 2012 I don't know if I would ever buy a new Gibson again, as much as I am a rabid Gibson fan and can now afford any of the better ones. I'll keep trying them at my local GC's but am very wary of any Gibson post 1985.

You are not alone. I have also been a big fan of Gibson guitars, and I have also owned four Gibson electrics over a number of years (currently own two). The quality has gone down as the instruments have gotten newer, with respect to the guitars I have owned. I still like Gibson electrics, but -- for the money vs. quality -- I would look elsewhere if I were in the market for an electric.

[The Growler]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Have your checkbook/credit card handy:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BAMSBGCH-14

Don't show me that! I'm trying to ignore them. We'll see how long that works. LOL