The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:12 PM
Jeff Mc Jeff Mc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 496
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bufflehead View Post
I attended the La Conner guitar festival this year, which was 100% boutique, and it seemed that every luthier there had at least a one-year waitlist before you could get something delivered. That suggested to me that business was good for those folks.
If a luthier was building 2 batches a year, that would possibly mean that he had one batch in progress but he could put you in the next batch. My one custom guitar was with John Walker. We started talking about it in November. I think that he started my guitar in June and it was delivered in January of the next year so was a little more than a year.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:18 PM
Jeff Mc Jeff Mc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 496
Default

I think that if you are looking at the upper range of Martins, Taylors, Collings, etc. not even going into the special editions, you are well within the range of a luthier built guitar for most luthiers.

I am not that demanding of special specs even for my one custom experience. Most of the luthiers seem to build spec guitars for the shows and you can pick one of those up with no wait at all plus getting to play it before you buy. I also like the idea of supporting the small craftsman.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:28 PM
blindboyjimi's Avatar
blindboyjimi blindboyjimi is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Wait lists for luthiers seem to be getting longer and longer which would point to the opposite being true.
Indeed. Plus Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Yamaha sell hundreds of thousands of guitars a year. There’s the less than 1%ers that buy single luthier guitars so the threads should indeed be mainly about production company guitar manufacturers.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:33 PM
Kitkatjoe Kitkatjoe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 819
Default

[QUOTE=WildBill82;6182648]I don't follow the market for used insanely expensive luthier guitars but, if there is an economic canary in the coal mine, that is where it will most likely announce itself.

I couldn't see paying ten or twenty grand for a guitar that might be worth a fraction of that ten years from now, but that's what makes a market.

This discussion brings up a broader question for me: if there's this huge market for expensive custom stuff, plus the mainstay makers are selling tons of their expensive models, why has the guitar been virtually disappeared from popular music? Quite a disconnect there.[/QUOTE
How many guitars can one of these little shops build in a year? Is it a smaller group who are buying them? Collectors, generally are not the makers .😅 of popular music that is followed by the masses.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:02 PM
s2y s2y is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Somewhere middle America
Posts: 6,594
Default

I haven't switched from luthier made to store brands. Gibson, Taylor, and Martin all make good guitars and have good qualities. My main issue is that making changes gets extremely costly. Luthiers can allow you to have elements of the popular brands and allow me to tailor them to my needs. I generally pay more than a stock instrument, but far less from store brand custom shops.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:27 PM
ManyMartinMan ManyMartinMan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: In The Hills, Off Mulholland
Posts: 4,101
Default

Couldn't say (no empirical evidence demonstrated to show this is true) but you get what you pay for. For $200 you get a great $200 guitar. For $2,000 you get a great $2,000 guitar. For $5,000 you get a fantastic Martin Authentic, Charis, Huss & Dalton, Collings and many others. For $10,000 you get great Kinnaird, Charis, Henderson, Santa Cruz, Martin . et al.

If you want to spend X thousand dollars, you can find it from Martin and every other custom builders. I have many top, top-tier guitars and they all start with Martin (at any price point) and go on to solo-builders and small-shop guitars. Collings drops out of small-shop guitars as they are great factory manufactured guitars.

Last edited by ManyMartinMan; 10-10-2019 at 11:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:15 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,668
Default

I have done a lot of exploring in guitars this year and did my first foray into a single build Luthier with a lightly used Kronbauer that I picked up off the forum.

Even at full custom price it is slightly less in cost than the street price for the Masterclass Breedlove I picked up. It is easily the equal in my eyes. They are both beautiful well built instruments with great sound. I actually have a slight preference to the Kronbauer at this point although I love both of them.

Earlier in the year I was comparing and trialing some 2-3k Martin's and Taylor's against the 2-3k Breedloves and while they all had their strong points I felt the Breedloves were more guitar for the same money.

Long story short I feel that the Kronbauer I picked up is more guitar for the money at it's price point. It is in that 3.5-4k range new from the Luthier and came with a nice cutaway and soudport, gorgeous wood and finish, beautiful details in the wood like inset rosewood strips lengthwise in the fretboard a fantastic setup as well as what I perceive as great tone.

Short of it is I think there are at least some Luthier builds that can be comparable or better value.

On the used market it was an even better value.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:56 PM
Yrksman's Avatar
Yrksman Yrksman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lancashire/Yorkshire border, England.
Posts: 2,589
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspiring View Post

Short of it is I think there are at least some Luthier builds that can be comparable or better value.

On the used market it was an even better value.
How do you measure value? There are a whole host of variables. Sound? Playability? Looks? Fit and finish? Resale value? Name association? Etc etc then add in the taste, ear, and ability of the purchaser and their financial situation.....
__________________


Chris Stern



Guitars by:

Bown Wingert Kinscherff Sobell Circa Olson Ryan Fay Kopp McNally Santa Cruz McAlister Beneteau Fairbanks Franklin Collings Tippin Martin Lowden Northworthy Pre-War GC Taylor Fender Höfner

44 in total (no wife)

Around 30 other instruments

Anyone know a good psychiatrist?

www.chrisstern.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:01 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,668
Default

Thats a good point I was judging it solely by my perception of the sound playability finish quality and aesthetics.

From my point of view I am defining it as the best guitar for me for the same amount of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrksman View Post
How do you measure value? There are a whole host of variables. Sound? Playability? Looks? Fit and finish? Resale value? Name association? Etc etc then add in the taste, ear, and ability of the purchaser and their financial situation.....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:03 PM
Yrksman's Avatar
Yrksman Yrksman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lancashire/Yorkshire border, England.
Posts: 2,589
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBill82 View Post
I don't follow the market for used insanely expensive luthier guitars but, if there is an economic canary in the coal mine, that is where it will most likely announce itself.

I couldn't see paying ten or twenty grand for a guitar that might be worth a fraction of that ten years from now, but that's what makes a market.

This discussion brings up a broader question for me: if there's this huge market for expensive custom stuff, plus the mainstay makers are selling tons of their expensive models, why has the guitar been virtually disappeared from popular music? Quite a disconnect there.
Have you ever bought a new car?

And where is the evidence for your assertion that the guitar has virtually disappeared? Ed Sheeran, Kacey Musgrave and numerous other acts are doing well and playing guitar with many older acts still playing, James Taylor and his generation for example.
__________________


Chris Stern



Guitars by:

Bown Wingert Kinscherff Sobell Circa Olson Ryan Fay Kopp McNally Santa Cruz McAlister Beneteau Fairbanks Franklin Collings Tippin Martin Lowden Northworthy Pre-War GC Taylor Fender Höfner

44 in total (no wife)

Around 30 other instruments

Anyone know a good psychiatrist?

www.chrisstern.com
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:36 PM
Dustinfurlow Dustinfurlow is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
I don't this is the case at all. In fact, IMO, the single luthier guitar is gaining in popularity.
Here's what I think. (And this could be the millennial in me talking, but whatever)

A lot of it has to do with many luthiers such a Bourgeois, Tom Sands, Jason Kostal, and Ray Kraut who are putting out quality content and advertising of their work to folks on several social media sites - consistently.

I'm sure as a luthier its near-impossible to find time to take nice photos of your guitars to share online but I'd venture to say it makes a huge impact! Folks will share the photos and all of a sudden you have a guy on Instagram who owns 3 Taylors and a D-28 going "what in the world are these guitars..wow" and if they're really passionate - they will research and get something nicer in their hands.

I'll never forget buying an OM-28 off reverb when I first had $ for a good guitar, then 2 months later got a preowned Bourgeois Vintage OM for a few hundred more to compare...it was like a $7 ribeye vs. a nice Wagyu tenderloin you'd get at a 5-star restaurant.. You definitely get what you pay for, all comes down to your priorities.

I think it's wonderful to see so many luthiers with their build slots filled up, chiseling away to the tune of the years they put into their craft.

EDIT:
Lets not even talk about Mr. Ed Sheeran, playing that Wee Lowden in the Beatle's movie "Yesterday" and just playing a handmade guitar, in general, as a pop artist. Then proceeding to start his own line with Lowden. I love seeing really good luthier's work in famous peoples hands....John Mayer with Traugott, Dave Matthews with Rockbridge, JT with Olson, Jason Mraz with Rockbridge, Ray LaMontagne with Bourgeois....etc.
__________________
Dustin Furlow

-Award-winning songwriter/guitarist, Visual storyteller
-D’Addario, G7th and K&K Sound Artist
-Music on Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube: www.youtube.com/dustinfurlow
-New album "Serene" (Oct '23) and tablature
available at www.dustinfurlow.com
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:49 PM
frankmcr frankmcr is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 5,341
Default

Is there a shift away from luthier-built guitars happening?

No.
__________________
stai scherzando?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-10-2019, 01:35 AM
AgentKooper AgentKooper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBill82 View Post
why has the guitar been virtually disappeared from popular music? Quite a disconnect there.

What popular music are you listening to? I’m a pretty avid consumer of new music, and there is more being released every week than I can keep up with from artists I’m interested in, all of it guitar-based.
__________________
Martin CS-00-18 (2015)
Martin OM-28V (2011)
Northfield Model M mandolin
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:40 AM
gitarro gitarro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,510
Default

I dont agree at all with your view. Faactory guitars are merely assembly line products made according to a standard template without any individual voicing at all to take into account the character of the wood sets used for that particular guitar that can wildly vary from set to set, and while there may be some customisation of aesthetic features accommodated by the factory, there is no customisation of tone that is possible.

Whereas a guitar made by a solo luthier is usually voiced by him to the stiffness and tonal potential of the wood sets used for top ans back and therefore there is skill exercised in shaping the tone consciously. The luthier seeks to build the most responsive and best sounding guitar for every guitar to the maximum of ts potential that he builds

For me, I havent owned a single completely factory made acoustic guitar since my first steel string and I have no interest in any brand of factory guitars.

Furthermore most luthier made guitars are not "insanely expensive". When you consider that a factory guitar can be made in as little as a couple of man hours in total for the really cheap factory guitars on one end of the spectrum, and that it can take 150 to 300 plus man hours for a solo luthier to build each guitar, the prices of most luthier made guitars doesnt seem so high. You can get base prices of less than $5,000 to the most in demand luthiers who charge more than $20-30k per guitar. But for the luthiers charging between 5k to 10k or so there are many who do not even make 12 guitars a year. While the luthiers who charge the highest tend to have been working as luthiers for more than 20 or 30 or even 40 years and have spent a lifetime to develop their reputation and to create the market demand for the are guitars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeFan View Post
It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's the case.

Luthier-built instruments are insanely expensive for a guitar that has some pretty close competition from large manufacturers which offer comparable guitars for thousands less...
__________________
In the end it is about who you love above yourself and what you have stood for and lived for that make the difference...

Last edited by gitarro; 10-10-2019 at 04:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:24 AM
CoffeeFan CoffeeFan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
In my opinion, you have to get into the higher end large manufacturer models to get into comparable boutique guitars.
Of course.

And the comparable boutique guitars are quite often far more expensive...
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=